The shit show began with the useful idiot David Cameron’s fear of the ultra libertarians

[Endlesssummer2022]

Great article below. Our issues today are a direct result of the Brexit vote. In June 2016 the UK approached the fork in the road and chose to walk down fantasy lane. We cannot damage trade with our closest neighbours and expect to become richer. True sovereignty does not exist as economies are inter-dependent.

Whoever replaces Liz, needs to improve our relationship with the EU. We need realists, grownups and experts back in charge. We also need to be humble and realise we’re not special.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/14/markets-take-back-control-brexit-humiliation-britain-suez

Wales does not have a Tory majority. Out of 40 Westminster seats, the Tories have 14 . In the Senedd they have 16 seats out of 60. Please don't lump us in with England.

escape goats gave me a laugh btw!

Of course it is down to brexit. This is especially because:

1. it entrenched a ‘you’re either with us or against us’ mentality within the Conservative party, which played out most recently in Truss’s crazy decision to include only her own supporters in her cabinet; and

1. it showed outsiders, consciously and sub-consciously, that the UK’s political institutions are not stable and that on the contrary, they are as vulnerable to fundamental shifts as a result of ideology, as opposed to cautious pragmatism as any immature democracy.

This was a terrible gamble to take. Effectively, through brexit, the ‘conservative’ party forgot about the ‘conserving’ bit and were taken over by minority with an ideological mission.

@Endlesssummer2022 👏 👏 to your dh

As a very pro-EU person I agree with this statement. We are out, we will not be going back in even if we want to. The EU will be very reluctant to accept the UK back. We also would not have the same deal as before.

It will take a generation and a general consensus that we want to be in the EU before they risk engaging with us.

Starmer has to make that statement as the tories will try to run another "brexit" campaign at election time saying labour want to reverse Brexit.

Apologies. I thought Wales voted for Brexit and had a majority of Tories in Westminster. I stand corrected.

Also there are no Tory, Labour or Lib Dem MPs in Northern Ireland. Politics there is very far removed from Westminster, with elections being little more than a green v orange head count. Hopefully we're starting to see this change with the rise of the Alliance party.

It will take more than a generation before the EU even considers a fresh UK application. Too many bridges have been burned and a fresh application needs an unanimous vote, which will not be easy to achieve because each EU country will protect their own inside market against a stronger UK competitor.

While I understand remainers, I think focussing on Brexit is a waste of time. Focus on electing the best MP to represent you on the hard times ahead - cost of living, NHS on its knees, energy bills out of control.......the things that are important right now. It's the only way to achieve a better government, it may not be the best, but at least it'll be fairer.

In Australia we've lived a similar situation as the UK with conservatives in power for 12 years. We finally kicked them out after the mess they made in this country, and the difference is outstanding in only a few short months.

There may not be Tory, Labour or LIb Dem in NI. But the DUP was essential in their support of the Tories. The parties may be different, the affiliation is the same.

NI is unique, most people are not extremists by nature but many vote for the DUP or Sinn Fein out of fear of the other 'side'.

The core issue is still (unfortunately) whether you're green or orange, it's not a normal political environment where issues like economic policy, health, housing, etc, decide elections.

NI was pro Remain, along with Scotland.

Apologies. I thought Wales voted for Brexit and had a majority of Tories in Westminster. I stand corrected

Wales did vote for Brexit, sadly, although it is thought the votes of people from England but living in Wales may have skewed the result.

I hope Cameron burns in hell.

"Britain faces a simple and inescapable choice – stability and strong government with me, or chaos with Ed Miliband."

What a period of stability we've had!

@Alondra, NI doesn't have a single Tory seat and voted Remain.

This Brexit fantasy is over - and btw the experts in the civil service, the public sector, the law, economists, have all given up on this Tory Government. Our institutions have been decimated. This makes us look less and less credible in the world when we need friends and allies.

It's been a vote for poverty- levelling down. The people who voted for it will become very quiet now as we all get poorer and the fantasies of reduced immigration and improved wages disappear.

England's view of itself as outside of a group of nations started with Henry VIII and the break with Rome, we became more insular at that point.

Im being semi tongue in cheek of course

Cameron goes down worse in my opinion than Thatcher.

What should be looked at is why so many people voted for Brexit. A large proportion of British people didn't see any benefit to us being in the EU. And a lot of people simply had no idea that there were so many people who felt that way, otherwise the referendum wouldn't have happened. Too many people in power live in an echo chamber, they are only around people similar to themselves who think the same way.

You're absolutely right

Most people voted to Leave because they lacked knowledge and were manipulated into it.

Endlesssummer2022
We went from being the fastest growing G7 economy in 2015 to the slowest in the G20 in 2022

That's not correct according to the IMF's current forecast - Latest World Economic Outlook Growth Projections (scroll down);

www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2022/10/11/policymakers-need-steady-hand-as-storm-clouds-gather-over-global-economy

Reduced immigration is a fantasy. From a few hundred illegal immigrants a year before Brexit to 30,000 this year. From European immigration, many of which were doctors, nurses, engineers and track drivers, to immigration from Sub saharian countries without the skills to improve living conditions where they matter.

People voted for it and keep justifying it. It comes to a point, your conservative governments are so shit, you need to vote for something different to make a change.

That's very simplistic and doesn't reflect reality. If being in the EU was so good and the benefits that obvious, it would be very hard if not impossible to manipulate people into voting to leave it. The truth is that the benefits of being in the EU were not shared equally. It was very beneficial for the wealthy and highly educated, not so much for normal working people.

And others who knew that the UK would be hugely disadvantaged by leaving but wanted it anyway due to ideology.

Ive read and heard people say that reduced growth is 'worth' it.

Its unforgivable.

I agree. Cameron is to blame for all this, simply trying to settle a score from school. He has a lot to answer for but he couldn't give a fuck.

They continue to whine every time that's pointed out though.