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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Jo Frost (Supernanny) was wrong to post inflammatory comments

376 replies

Margot78 · 14/10/2022 22:23

Jo Frost shared this on her FB page. I’m
not sure why, I was quite baffled by it. Surely she knows that parents of children with asd/adhd/ocd will be offended at the suggestion that they are chasing a label for their child? Not sure what she was trying to achieve with this!

To think Jo Frost (Supernanny) was wrong to post inflammatory comments
OP posts:
GlassesWearer · 18/10/2022 18:41

WTF475878237NC · 14/10/2022 22:42

Our paed team is full of parents of 4-8 year olds with relationship-based (attachment) difficulties being expressed through behaviour the parents find challenging. Often the parents are seeking a diagnosis because they truly believe that will solve the issues. It comes as a massive blow and not a relief to many to learn that their child is not neurodiverse but instead needs developmentally appropriate nurturing (ie attuned parenting). It's often families who haven't had the best start and who have complex needs going back generations. The children we see more than those we diagnose are neither neurodiverse nor naughty. They simply haven't had parenting that met their very typical needs.

Supernanny's style of expressing herself seems unnecessarily inflammatory I agree.

I was a teacher and I absolutely agree with this. There are a lot of parents who desperately want a diagnosis that their child is ND to justify why their child's behaviour is poor. Equally, there are a lot of parents of children who are ND who are adamant that they aren't. In both circumstances, the children suffer. It's an unpleasant and unpopular fact that many parents label their NT children as ND, without a medical diagnosis, because it's much easier to be a parent of a badly behaved NT child than a well behaved NT child - but pretending your child is ND gives you all the leniency of having a ND child with none of the work of having one.

Tigofigo · 18/10/2022 18:50

User478 · 14/10/2022 22:36

I think it's unasseptible

Haha best answer.

God I wish I didn't want to label my children. I wish they didn't struggle so much with things other kids just do and other parents take for granted.

As it happens my autistic child does appear wilfully naughty sometimes. I'm not sure if it's connected to ASD or not.

My other, undiagnosed child is not naughty at all - he's helpful, polite and so wants to do well - but he struggles so much with impulse control, functions and attention that it can seem like bad manners, sloppiness and rudeness.

I will admit to seeking - not a label, but a better understanding - of why he struggles so much. Then I might be able to work out how to help him. We've not got there yet. It's taking years and years and thousands of £. Anyone who has gone through diagnosis knows it's not a walk in the park either.

Tigofigo · 18/10/2022 20:10

KweenieBeanz · 15/10/2022 09:53

It feels like every other child and adult has a ND diagnosis now. When it reaches the point when more than 50% of people have a neurodiverse diagnosis surely that means having a diagnosis is neurotypical rather than diverse....
I actually think all human behaviour and development is a spectrum and in recent years we are just drawing the line closer to the middle of that spectrum in terms of what 'qualifies' for diagnosis. There have always been people who don't cope so well with large groups, people who struggle with emotional regulation etc. I personally would prefer it if we just accepted that as a different personality type, i'm not saying nobody should receive a diagnosis as clearly there are some people desperately in need of support and services but there are so so so many children being diagnosed now that it's making it much harder for the most in need to access the services because loads of kids who frankly have the mildest of needs are queuing up for EHCP's, 1:1 classroom support, and every other additional resource going.
Don't people see that if so many people are truly neurodiverse then we can't give masses of extra resources and support to all of them? Imagine a situation (and it's honestly going that way now) where 40% of the kids in a class have a ND diagnosis and have managed to wangle extra support, who's paying for it all 😫

This is not true, those who are 3 and under and therefore most severely impacted have a different path to diagnosis where I am and it's much shorter and quicker.

Also, the ability to get a diagnosis hinges on how it impairs your life.

So if you're so mildly affected it doesn't significantly impair you, you won't get a diagnosis.

I think you're right that a higher proportion of people have neurodivergent traits than previously thought. I'm one of them. But most of them won't be severely impacted.

Maybe if the school system wasn't so unfit for purpose then no one would need to "wangle" anything. People wouldn't be desperate to get EHCPs or extra assistance if their child was getting on ok at school.

Tigofigo · 18/10/2022 20:15

GlassesWearer · 18/10/2022 18:41

I was a teacher and I absolutely agree with this. There are a lot of parents who desperately want a diagnosis that their child is ND to justify why their child's behaviour is poor. Equally, there are a lot of parents of children who are ND who are adamant that they aren't. In both circumstances, the children suffer. It's an unpleasant and unpopular fact that many parents label their NT children as ND, without a medical diagnosis, because it's much easier to be a parent of a badly behaved NT child than a well behaved NT child - but pretending your child is ND gives you all the leniency of having a ND child with none of the work of having one.

I disagree. It's incredibly hard parenting a child who isn't "well behaved". You have to watch them like a hawk, leave social occasions early, apologise to others for their actions, feel the shame when all the other parents judge, you never get a break as they almost never get invited to play dates or sleepovers, worry when they DO get a party invite about how to manage it, you're constantly on high alert.

antelopevalley · 18/10/2022 21:23

@Tigofigo That is because you are a mum who cares. Some just let their kids go wild and never say sorry or watch what they are doing.

Fl0w3ryard857473 · 18/10/2022 21:48

No by using the word “we” she is inferring it’s endemic in society. By using ABCD she is scorning neurodiversities. She is not a psychiatrist and has no basis making quotes such as this anywhere let alone social
media.

oakleaffy · 18/10/2022 22:32

HappySalmon · 15/10/2022 19:50

Children are naughty because they’re trying to communicate something and mostly as a way of getting attention. Whilst I don’t agree with this post I see what she’s saying. It seems so many people are looking for reasons to explain why their child is difficult. What children need is just attention and time which, sadly, not many parents have the luxury in modern society to offer.

It seems to be the general consensus among those who choose to become parents that if you don’t have a perfectly compliant child who is happy to be pushed from pillar to post, sleep soundly in their own bed and cause you minimum effort so you can carry on your life as it was before you had children, then there must be something wrong with them.

Got it on one!
The “rare” children now are the “ Neurotypical” stable ones.

Kids need a lot of attention and time, and early years nurturing- It does seem to lay a solid foundation.

Divorce, separation, Death of parent, especially if this occurs early on, really destabilises some children .
Never mind the children who go into “ Care” through no fault of their own.

We learn to be a parent ( for good or ill) from our own experiences.

FatEaredFuck · 19/10/2022 15:51

"The “rare” children now are the “ Neurotypical” stable ones."

Biscuit
danielmoore · 19/10/2022 19:59

I feel so insulted by this as I'm autistic myself.
How can people be so blind to not see what this kind of statement could do?
By saying this in the public eye while having numerous followers this is the foundation of a dangerous stereotype and more stigma. In the article and her Instagram she claims hidden disabilities are just an excuse for people to get their own way.
If she and her followers turn it into a stereotype people will stop taking genuinely diagnosed people's needs into consideration. Like if something in a classroom or work environment is hurting or bothering a disabled person it will just be taken as an excuse and their needs will be disregarded. It could increase employment discrimination as she's claiming disabilities are a substitute for bad behaviour.
Let's say she was correct for a moment, it is still wrong to falsely accuse parents who are not running after "labels". Either way she's in the wrong.
If I were a parent with a disabled child I would not trust her.

Frazzgirl · 17/09/2023 15:37

How Ironic she has just labelled her Grandchild "Neurodivergent" yet she did a mocking post about labels back in October

Iammetoday · 17/09/2023 15:53

I do get where she's coming from,lots of parents label their children ADHD with no formal diagnosis abd often they just need a firm boundary in place, been SEND teacher for a long time now and there's a big shift in parents not parenting just labelling as an excuse for behaviour.

ThingthatgoesFFSinthenight · 17/09/2023 15:55

I’m surprised she is still in that sphere and has any followers. She never had any credentials or credibility as far as I am concerned.

M4J4 · 17/09/2023 16:02

I think she’s right. I have ADHD but some kids are just naughty. Little shits.

M4J4 · 17/09/2023 16:03

Frazzgirl · 17/09/2023 15:37

How Ironic she has just labelled her Grandchild "Neurodivergent" yet she did a mocking post about labels back in October

She’s not saying there are no ND children, is she?

MysteryBelle · 17/09/2023 16:18

I’m not baffled at all. She is 100% correct. She is not talking about kids who really are in those categories, she’s obviously talking about the people who are jumping on the bandwagon to be trendy. Everybody and their mamas now have some sort of acronym condition. We all know it happens. It is only insulting to true diagnosed kids, their families, and perhaps to the pretenders haha.

Let us think clearly and logically. Not every instance of child or adult misbehavior is because of a condition. If it is then that would mean no one is responsible for his or her actions or crimes or anything. Come on.

MartinChuzzlewit · 17/09/2023 16:19

Well of course she is annoyed about ADHD kids - they go against her business model of berating parents of ND children. She has no market to bleat to now

Dolores87 · 17/09/2023 16:25

I can't explain just how much I hate this toxic women. She doesn't even have kids. I have no idea why she seems to think he opinion about parenting means anything at all.

rwalker · 17/09/2023 16:26

The problem is in a percentage of cases she is right
how big that percentage is and how you weed it out I have no idea

MartinChuzzlewit · 17/09/2023 16:36

Dolores87 · 17/09/2023 16:25

I can't explain just how much I hate this toxic women. She doesn't even have kids. I have no idea why she seems to think he opinion about parenting means anything at all.

I think it’s ok that she’s not a parent but she’s also not a child psychologist- just a nanny.

Wouldyouguess · 17/09/2023 18:06

YellowTreeHouse · 14/10/2022 22:45

She’s right. People are desperate for an excuse for their child’s naughtiness. It then absolves them of any responsibility.

If you knew how desperate many parents of neurodiverse children are to get the diagnosis which means support for their children, you would not be making such uninformed comments.

Wouldyouguess · 17/09/2023 18:08

GlassesWearer · 18/10/2022 18:41

I was a teacher and I absolutely agree with this. There are a lot of parents who desperately want a diagnosis that their child is ND to justify why their child's behaviour is poor. Equally, there are a lot of parents of children who are ND who are adamant that they aren't. In both circumstances, the children suffer. It's an unpleasant and unpopular fact that many parents label their NT children as ND, without a medical diagnosis, because it's much easier to be a parent of a badly behaved NT child than a well behaved NT child - but pretending your child is ND gives you all the leniency of having a ND child with none of the work of having one.

I sadly met many teachers who know fuck all about disabilities and don't care as long as they have a nice well behaved class, and maybe you were one of them. If you read forums for parents of ND children you see how the system is failing the kids and their families (schools happily labelling them as naughty as it means they don't have to provite any support at all) and glad to see you no longer teach, as I presume you'd be a part of the problem.

aduckinarow · 17/09/2023 18:45

Kids with labels can still be naughty. All kids are at some points . What I don't agree with is making excuses for that with a label and I think that's what she means

Most parents can see the difference between behaviour that's due to ND and behaviour rhats rude / defiant/ disrespectful, or yes , naughty .

I've 2 kids . One ND and one not . All children are "naughty " at times . Simply excusing it due to being ND does no one any favours.

SpidersAreShitheads · 17/09/2023 18:55

Imagine for a second that you have a diagnosed medical condition which makes everyday tasks really difficult, sometimes impossible. That your medical condition stops you from being able to do the same things as others even when you really, really, really try.

Imagine the impact on your self-esteem and sense of self-worth because your disability means that you can't do the same things as others around you. Things that they can manage without even thinking about it.

Now imagine that a large section of society is telling you that you just need to "try harder" and that your condition doesn't really exist - even though you have an official diagnosis from a consultant.

Maybe there is a small handful of people who also claim to have the condition, but they're not officially diagnosed. Everyone else points to these people as proof that the condition you have is fake and made up. Even though you're properly diagnosed, this small minority just feeds public perception that it's not a real disability, and that your condition isn't real. That the consultants hand out these diagnoses to anyone and everyone (even though that's not true, but no one seems to care about the actual truth).

Every forum you go onto, there's a ton of people talking about how your condition never used to exist. Lot of jokes about how "everyone has got it now, right? LOL!!" - with lots of people nodding their head in agreement.

You know it's real. You have to live with the fucking effects of it every day of your life. Your consultant knows it's real. But the constant whispers and sneering makes others doubt whether this condition is just a cover for being lazy/weak/<insert other derogatory term>.

When public figures like Jo mock ADHD and autism, all of this is exacerbated. For our children, for the parents who are trying to support neurodivergent children, and for those of us who are neurodivergent ourselves.

But the people sneering about neurodivergence won't care - because they're convinced that most of us, and our neurodivergent children are fakes, and just a reflection of lazy modern society.

Give yourselves a round of applause. Well done on making people with genuine medical conditions feel even shitter than we already do about our difficulties. No wonder we have to fight so fucking hard to get our neurodivergent kids even the most basic support they need.

JamSandle · 17/09/2023 19:11

Shes right though. Some kids are just naughty.

danielmoore · 17/09/2023 19:16

Think logically then, are you aware disabilities always have, and always will be contextual?
If you think logically you would know modern pathology/psychiatry is actually a discriminatory science that creates 'disorders' through a process called 'socialisation'.

Typical vs Atypical
Neurotypical vs Neurodivergent
Parallel polarisation, where do we see dichotomy and polarisation most regularly? Politics.

So you don't have to keep reading look up a video on YouTube called "The Restoration of Neurodiversity" on my channel "Autistic Dan".