To ask how to handle difficult neighbour

[ShouldIdo]

So, we have a property that we do not live in full time, it is a holiday let and we use it as much as possible. We are retiring there in around 18 months.

We are carrying out improvements, the last of which were about 2.5 years ago. This was a driveway, we spoke with our neighbour (it is a shared driveway), we wanted to replace our half as it was broken up concrete, dangerous and full of puddles. She was extremely unhappy about this, didn't want us to do it, was "concerned" we would destabilise the shared drain, very difficult. We discussed exactly where it would come to, explained that as the drain was shared, any issues caused would be as much as a problem to us as it would her. We were using the local builder, who she knows as he lives in the same road. It was all agreed, at the time, we told her works were being carried out in January/Feb, on speaking further to the builder he advised that was not a good time of year as he was concerned the digger would get stuck, we emailed and advised it would be sometime in May and we would keep her informed. Builder confirmed two weeks before it was to be started, emailed and confirmed to neighbour, didn't hear a thing. Builder turned up and she was angry, didn't want them to start work, didn't know where the drive was coming to (it was all marked out from previously), caused a complete issue and in the end I had to go down there to appease her with confirming the drive would go to the mark, work got carried out, drain ok, cut down between the two edges of the drive perfect, no issues, even offered to pay for her car to be cleaned as it was made dusty, no response, so it didn't happen.

We now want to have our back fence replaced, typically our fence is the one that borders her garden. By complete coincidence I heard her talking to another neighbour about the fence, he advised that it is always the left hand fence as you looked at the property, which it isn't of course, we have checked our deeds, run it by our solicitor and it is our fence.

Couple of examples of other things that have happened, her neighbour the other side erected a fence between their and her conservatory, they had the property up for sale at the time, she rang the agent and told them she was unhappy with the fence and gleefully told me that they told her that they would no longer market the property (absolute rubbish of course, the house sold and the people moved).

We had an issue with our shared drain (prior to the new drive), I arrange for a "dyno rod" type man to visit and unblock it, I paid for it and it was cleared all good, he advised that it caused an issue for both sides, so it was an equal problem. He knocked on her door on arrival, no answer so as he didn't need permission as it was a shared drain, he cleared it and went on his. She called my letting agent (not sure how she found out who it was) and advised them she wasn't happy. They called me a little bemused and just relayed the conversation. I contacted her and she really couldn't answer what the issue was. I explained a shared drain is that it's shared and I wasn't charging her.

She has fallen out with a number of neighbours in the street.

So, when and how do I advise that we are having a new fence erected? I don't think we "legally" have to, but to keep relationships no worse than they are, should I email? Call? Face to face? I can give an approximate timescale, but this is part of a garden renovation, so it is dependent on weather etc.

I do not want to "pander" to this neighbour in any way, because no matter what I do, she moans. We had a dog when we first bought the property, he sadly passed away and we after 18 months got a new puppy. She wasn't happy with that as her cats like to go in our garden, well sorry, but our dog, our garden, our dog will bark at the cats, but would not hurt them. Previously she had a major issue at work and wanted to try for constructive dismissal. I assisted a lot as I have some knowledge in this area, helped her construct emails, whilst advising that she need to be realistic of the potential outcome, she was not successful.

Sorry, this is so long, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Sorry, that is so long.

I’ve experienced similar OP, so I’m with @LuckyLil on this one. Being nice will get you nowhere.

As someone who lives with an unfriendly neighbour. Sell up and then buy nearby when you’re ready to retire. You don’t want the stress of worrying about her being nasty and just have to look at her every single day. She’s hated you for years, it’s not gonna get better when you’ve had work done and when you’re going to be in her face daily.

I sympathize,we have only ever had one decent neighbour. However,you say it's a shared drive and you are repairing your half. That makes no sense. Is it possible to have a picture or diagram. A friend of mine has a shared drive, which just widens out at the end by the garage,and they have fallen out (not over the drive!) I wouldn't move there. I would NEVER ever have a shared drive. I insisted after donkeys years of problem neighbours,I would only live detached,it doesn't work, unfortunately we cannot afford to live in the middle of a field. People have said to me, what does it say about you,that you've always had selfish/problem neighbours. We did complain once about them, many years ago, and they then made our lives hell,so you have to tread carefully, for your mental health at least.

Agree with posters saying just post a note that politely states it's your fence and you'll be replacing on x date. You're unlikely to appease her whatever you do, so just get on with it.

I agree I wouldn't engage at all buy I would ensure some elements with your contractor t9 make sure there are no issues.
The first would be setting of posts on your side.
Second that the boundary is measured before they take down the old fence and new one goes up in exactly the same spot.
Make sure your contractor isn't working on her property and whatever the fence is like currently it's not too dissimilar for how it looks on her side at the moment so if you have the bars then you have them again.

I say the above from experience who's neighbour replaced the fence and she tried to get the contractor to move it by nearly half a meter onto or property because she thought due to a drain pipe it was her land.......it wasn't! She then told them to work in our garden as she wanted the slated side and not the bars (not how it was previously). Thankfully I was on mat leave and was very clear that she could access our property if she double backed it and she was completely wrong in trying to land grab from us.

I wouldn’t tell her. No matter what you do, she’s not happy, she’s always going to complain, so don’t give her the heads up - it will only give her time to work out her complaint 🤷‍♀️

It’s your property, your fence, you don’t need her permission. You’ve tried to be nice/neighbourly/polite in the past, it’s not worked so don’t bother any further.

Short note saying “We were growing a little concerned about the adjoining fence, and we were embarrassed, on looking at the deeds to find that it is OUR responsibility to keep it in good order, as we mistakenly believed that the border to the left was the default. If we had realised this earlier, the fence would have been higher on our list of priorities, however, I am sure you will be relieved to hear that this is now in progress and should be completed on (date)”.

We had a NDN like this. In the end, we stopped asking and started telling. Made no difference to the reactions at all, you can't reason with unreasonable.

Why lie?

Yeah @ShouldIdo I completely agree that you shouldn’t have to, but if you don’t provide her with the evidence that the fence is yours before the work commences, then she’s going to give your poor workmen hell. I’d also provide the workmen with the proof of this also, because if she comes out screaming about it being her fence, they may stop working until they see some deeds, for fear of legal repercussions. Might not happen of course but how frustrating would that be?!

I agree with this. It gives all the info she needs, but no more. I think you've already bent over backwards for her and she is determined to moan and find fault no matter what, so fuck her really.

Our neighbours fence labourers trespassed on our land without permission to an erect a fence that he didn’t have permission to erect and there was precisely zero we could do about it.

ny advice is just crack on. It’s a civil matter and she can do fuck all bar a solicitors letter.

So, when and how do I advise that we are having a new fence erected? I don't think we "legally" have to, but to keep relationships no worse than they are, should I email? Call? Face to face?

And then you mention pandering in your next paragraph ...

You need to reframe the dynamic.
Every time YOU imagine you are giving her courteous communication, SHE hears that you are asking for permission.
You no more need to tell this woman that you are replacing a fence than you need to tell her you are about to do the washing up.

Every time you discuss your decisions with her, you give her ammunition to have a go at you, your builders, your letting agent ...
You already know from neighbours that she's a pain in the arse who enjoys trouble making. So stop handing her any more ammunition!
Just deal with whatever works you need to deal with, & when she kicks off - & face it, she's going to kick off whether you've spoken in advance or not, so why give yourself earache twice? - just dismiss her.

You are acting as if her batshittery requires a response.
It doesn't.
Start going blithely about your business, & ignore her.
She can bleat to your builder, your letting agent, your neighbours ... even you. And you can smile sweetly & say something like "you don't need to concern yourself with my fence/drive/drains works" & keep walking.

Really. Can you see it now - that every time you engage with her, you are handing her permission to whinge at you? Stop doing it! The works on your property are no more her business than they are mine. I'd be telling her to keep her beak out - you may want to find a more Grey Rock form of words though ...

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock

Exactly.
No need to lie, no need to 'sell' it to her.

PP are acting as if OP needs to appease this awkward woman.
And the more you tiptoe around this type, the more autocratic they become.

I would ignore her completely - just ensure the fence builders have a copy of the deeds to wave at her when she comes flying at them.

A quick note simply stating "our deeds show that the fence between our properties is ours and in the circumstances we therefore intend to replace it on (date). It should only take x days but please be aware that this will be taking place at that time. Hope you are well? "

@Purple52 do you have a link please? We’ve never had deeds for our house, it was an old large one split into two years ago. I can only find websites charging £14-29! Thanks

Sympathies. We have the same situation. It’s our fence but neighbour says it’s his. It’s awful, unsightly etc. But DH won’t do anything in case it upsets the neighbour, so we’re stuck with it.

If it were me, the day before I’d pop a note in/ knock door and say we are getting a new fence. Why don’t they want these new fences? I’d love it if someone popped around and said I’m going to do x,y,z - I’ll organise it all! - Lovely! But apparently not. 🤷🏼‍♀️

@mygrandchildrenrock
its gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

you need to create an account. But it’s only your name and email address. Use a credit card for the £3, but you can search to know if there’s something there before you commit to entering payment details.

@mygrandchildrenrock you probably want to spend £6 for the title and plan. But at least it’s info straight from source without someone adding a mark up.

@Purple52 thank you very much.

You have my sympathy about this , you aren’t in the wrong.

I’d simply tell whomever is doing it to stay out of her garden, and crack on. Absolute max would be a note thru the door the morning they’re due to start.

as you say, she’ll whinge regardless so why bother.