To not put meds in DS’s drink?

[uralecru]

Reposting for traffic as id like more opinions, sorry if that's not allowed

DS is 17, we all suspect he has BPD, he's currently under camhs. In July, he had to stay in hospital for a few days as he was a danger to himself - he would've been sectioned but I was told this would've done him more harm than good. His antidepressents had started working and he seemed a bit better, he's not self harmed for months (that I know about) so I thought things were starting to get better after a horrible year.

College started and so did the anxiety but he still seemed ok.

However, yesterday one of his friends told me that he's been telling her he feels how he did before but another ‘friend’ had told him recently he complains 24/7 so he's stopped telling everyone how he feels, that he doesn't think he'll make it to 18 etc.

He's not taken his meds for a few days either, when asked why he's just told us he doesn't want to and no one can force him.

Today, I phoned his psychiatrist and told her what his friend told me and that he's not taking his meds, she wants to see him tomorrow and I've told him this, which seemed to make him angry as he was shouting at me that they're going to say he's unsafe again but he's really fine etc.

DP has said I shouldn't have phoned her as I've probably made things worse now with his anxiety and we should've just put the meds in his drink as its a liquid, but I don't know how I'd feel doing this as it would help him, but its also lying to him. DP has also said they probably won't be able to do anything as he’s made it clear no one can force him, I'm not sure what they can do but I was at a loss earlier.

WIBU to phone his psychiatrist and AIBU to not put the meds in his drink?

What if you keep putting meds in his drink and he starts to say “I don’t need the meds I feel fine without them”, or you put them in his drink and he decides to take them after all and double doses. You were absolutely right to call the physchiatrist.

@JudgeRindersMinder that's not blunt and brutal, that's completely irresponsible emotional manipulation

I agree,I'm stunned you did 😱

The problem with putting them in his drink, is that he is going to feel better and because he is unaware that he is taking medication, think that he is feeling better of his own accord. That will result him not wanting to take any meds in the future as he thinks he doesn't need them.

Don't put anything in a drink without first checking with a pharmacist and the person who prescribed it.

I have to hide my ds's medication in food/drink because that's the only way he will take it*. However some meds when given covertly need to be given in a particular way. Paracetamol for example isn't heat stable so needs to go in cold things and there are a few meds that can't go in acidic drinks or those with grapefruit/pomegranate in them. Covert administration also means the medication is given in a way that it's not supposed to- essentially it's off licence that way and it's up to the prescriber to say its OK to give.

*before anyone hands me my arse on a platter ds has lots and lots of additional needs. He also absolutely hates taking medicines as he has a lot when he was a baby/toddler and has learnt that syringes of liquid don't always taste nice (sytron, I am looking at you here). I've had many, many conversations with his paediatrician and the local pharmacist about hiding meds in food.

I agree.

And there’s not a degree of emotional manipulation with a person who has BPD? Sometimes you have to do what you have to in order to get by

Put it in his drink for now and until you can meet with a psychiatrist
Why doesn't he want to take the meds? Does he not like the side effect? Feel like they don't work? When you can work that bit out you can work out what to do next example change meds xx so much love you must feel so broken and lost xxxx

The point of the medication you're describing is that it has to be taken consistently. If you start doping his drinks you run the risk of him deciding to start them again and overdosing or not being able to get it to him a day and then his mood dropping as a result. If he finds out you've been drugging him against his will he will completely shut down on you and you will really struggle to get him to feel like he can trust you and talk to you if he needs help. I understand why you want to do it but please don't. However ringing the psychiatrist is absolutely the right thing to do if you're worried about him. Be straight with him on what you're feeling and seeing. Let the mental health professionals assess him again and hopefully they can convince him back on the meds voluntarily. If there's a reason why he stopped them that needs addressed. He might not fully understand the consequences to stopping abruptly, he might be struggling with side effects and needs a review or different dosage or they might try him on new meds altogether. So please don't go behind his back on this. Get yourself some support from a counselling service because I'm sure you're all at your wits end.

You can not decide to medicate him, you can not decide he doesn't have the ability to decide. No psychiatrist would support covert medicating, you could be charged with assault.

He also needs to engage to get better.

Op unmumsnetty hugs, because it is shit. You were right to contact his doctor. But he can refuse to consent for your to be involved in his care so do tred carefully.

@yougotthelook 100% behind you. She needed the help and she’s alive because of this.

@uralecru the dilemma is real, if he doesn’t want the medication, he has to know that this will affect him. If he had heart issues or cancer, he’d take the treatment. This is no different, he has to find a way to understand this. Is he the one suggesting you slip things in his drink or was that the psychiatrist? I feel for you. You must feel so helpless, and we gotta do what we gotta do to get them through this.

@JudgeRindersMinder please stop posting your disgusting dangerous manipulative bs.
You are weaponising suicide threats and using those threats to try to bully the op into committing a crime whilst throwing in ablist bs to excuse it this is not ok

Absolutely not. If I ordered this for a patient, or did this to a patient, or even knew it was going on and didn’t speak up I would be struck off. It’s a form of assault and breach of rights and at your son’s age it doesn’t matter whether you are his Dr or his parent, what you are proposing is against the law.

Yes, you are able to do this for babies/younger children as they are not deemed to have competency. Also for those above age with cognitive impairment be it via disability or age who have been independently deemed to lack competency. The only other way, for mental health meds, is when forced on the patient via a court order and then you must be open about what you are doing but as court ordered they have no choice so it can be the easy way or hard way but will happen.

You absolutely cannot do this at your sons age.

@MzHz Is he the one suggesting you slip things in his drink or was that the psychiatrist?

It would not have been the psychiatrist as no way would they be able to put this forward.

@Hoardasurass It’s an opinion and I’m entitled to it. You are equally entitled to disagree with it. I deal with mental health issues every day of my working life, and unfortunately have lived with mental and physical ill health in my personal life so don’t you DARE call me ableist.
I know many professionals who are beyond frustrated with people like OP’s son who have all the rights but none of the responsibilities, and it’s part of the reason that mental ill health in this country is so prevalent.

@JudgeRindersMinder I know that’s blunt and brutal, but is he really in a position to have appropriate capacity to make that decision re his meds?

He may well not be, but there is a process when someone is not to account for this and address it. Can be done and is done daily all over the place, usually via sectioning and a shit tonne of paperwork. It should not be done via the illegal mechanism you are encouraging.

is he bipolar (rather borderline personality as someone suggested)? with the former, because of its nature ,it's really common for people to go through an acceptance process of the need to take medication ; often bipolar people feel meds take away an important essence of themselves and part of learning to live with the illness is coming to terms with what they need to do to keep themselves stable. For all those being horrible, unless you have had a mentally ill child, please don't judge, parents are driven to extremes sometime to keep their children alive and well. So,OP, I agree don't covertly medicate - hopefully the Dr will be able to talk your son around.

Two possible problems with this method:
What happens if he starts taking meds, and you end up double dosing him?
What happens if his mental health improves, and that demonstrates to him the meds weren't necessary or made him worse.

Please be very careful if you go down this route.

Yes, they think he has borderline personality disorder and he has an assessment in a few weeks. He wouldn't have a double dose of the meds as I have hidden them and I give it to him, as in March he did try to overdose different anti depressants.

He started on the ones he's taking now in May and he did have side effects although they did stop so that isn't the reason, when asked he just says he doesn't want to take them, I've asked him again this morning and he's refused, he is complaining about having a headache and feeling dizzy though which is probably because he stopped taking them suddenly.

@JudgeRindersMinder if what you claim about your working situation is true then that makes your posts even more irresponsible and the fact that you can't/won't/don't recognise this very troubling and proves that you are not someone who should be working with vulnerable people!
Advocating illegally medicating a 17 year old against their will and without their knowledge whilst using the implied threat that the op will be responsible for her sons suicide is beyond the pale. To then try and excuse this by making ablist comments about it being OK because people with BPD are themselves manipulative is disgusting.
I do hope that you have a good long think about what you have posted and see the error of it and if not that someone reports you to your employer before you cause irreversible harm to the vulnerable people you work with

@Hoardasurass ok then

I was depressed as a teenager. My parents spiked me when I chose to stop taking antidepressants. I never ever forgave them for this.
You should not do that.

I'm bipolar and at a place where I know I categorically have no choice but to keep taking meds however I have had differing stages of denial in regards to taking them..and my opinion would be being spiked with them is a massive massive no no. I can't imagine any of the psychiatrists I've had saying that would be a good idea either.

No it's a trust issue.

Never mind the trust issues of illegally medicating his drink - who’s to say he will get the full dose. Or if it’s still effective etc? My sons now 28 and had a break down 5 years ago and went from a functioning adult out in the world to a paranoid schizophrenic. If he’s off meds I work with the professionals so they know what’s happening. I don’t stick my head in the sand like your DH wants to for fear of upsetting your son.

whether he likes it or not you have a duty of car to help him manage his condition.