Chuggers/fundraisers should take your first "no" for an answer

[Parkingmoan1]

I've just been walking through the town centre on my way to catch a bus and was caught by one of those fundraising groups who accost you in the street.

As soon as she started talking to me I politely said no thank you, I don't have the time to talk and carried on walking. Instead of taking that as my final answer she chose to walk alongside me saying "I'm a fast talker" and continued her speech.

I felt a bit intimidated to be honest, she was quite loud and bolshie whereas I don't like confrontation and hate things like this.

I said I don't have any spare money, she said if I didn't want to make the one off payment to the cause (£25 bloody quid) the magazine they're selling is "only" £5.

I ended up buying the magazine just so that she'd leave me alone.

AIBU to think they should have to take your first "no" as an answer and leave you be?

We signed up people to make monthly donations through their bank accounts, and were told that the first 10 months of donations went to my company, as it was their 'fee' for signing the person up!!

Is this made explicitly clear to the donor? If not, I wonder why it isn't a legal requirement to do so? If the normal charity collectors, standing on the high street with a tin, just kept the first big chunk of all they were given for themselves before passing some of it on to the charity they were collecting for, everybody would rightly be utterly disgusted and call them thieves and frauds; even if they had a small sign up saying "£2 of every £10 collected will be passed to the charity and the other £8 taken by me as an admin fee", there would be fury - so why is it allowed for chuggers?

Considering how many people will sign up under the pressure and then cancel before they've even paid 10 months' worth - it really is invoking the name of the charity under false pretences and, imho, nothing but fraud. I think people often see the phrase 'charity muggers' as a bit of light-hearted hyperbole, but I don't think it's really very far from the truth at all.

Not to get at you, @mjf981 by the way - you realised quickly what it was really all about and quit soon.

I think a lot of the chuggers are probably genuinely hoodwinked into thinking that they are helping charities and donors by putting them in contact with each other and don't really think about how terribly unethical and dishonest it is - at least at first.

No worries :)

And no, I don’t think they give a toss.

A piece of advice for anyone thinking of leaving a charity money in your will: don’t. They employ people to comb through wills once made public after the grant of probate, and the charity will then hound the executors relentlessly for the money. When MIL died some years ago we had this, and our sols had to write and tell them to piss off until the assets had all been liquidated so they could get their bequest.

My husband has also litigated several disputes where the extent of what the charity got was unclear, and they are unbelievably aggressive and will pursue litigation to the nth degree. They would say that it is their duty as trustees to get as much money in as possible. But they are terrifying opponents. Huge amounts of money to litigate and no ability or desire to compromise. Don’t under any circumstances put your surviving relatives in a situation where they might have to fight a charity for their bequest.

I got sucked into signing up when I was a broke student myself. I was young, intimidated by a man knocking on my door and thought I was being a good person. Within a week someone from the charity phoned and spieled off a script asking me to up my £10 per month donation to £20. I didn't, but I'm sure if I had then there would have been another call asking me to increase it again.
We still get them to the door, even though I'm a lot wiser these days. To the last one I explained I wouldn't be signing up but I did donate all my clothes and furniture to their shop in town. He immediately asked how many items I typically donated and said 'nah we would get more money if you just sign up'. I felt like slamming the door in his face.

My son was staying with me for a few days recently and got collared at the door by a chugger....he has signed up to a monthly direct debit...I was really annoyed..he is a recent graduate living in London and trying to get out of his student debt.
He felt like he couldn't say no....Ive told him to cancel the direct debit but I dont think he has.

A piece of advice for anyone thinking of leaving a charity money in your will: don’t. They employ people to comb through wills once made public after the grant of probate, and the charity will then hound the executors relentlessly for the money. When MIL died some years ago we had this, and our sols had to write and tell them to piss off until the assets had all been liquidated so they could get their bequest.

Oh, they make it sound like such a friendly thing to do inn their adverts and just how very appreciative they are of your kindness; but as soon as you sign up, they add you to their asset list. Effectively, from that point, you're an inconvenience and an obstacle to them getting at their money until you hurry up and die. Every time they send you a communication, they're keeping tabs on your health and hoping that it will be returned to them as undeliverable, because you've died and they can then swoop in.

As you say, even if you only leave them 1%, they will try to control and dictate the sale process, as though they were the sole beneficiary. Imagine that you needed a few weeks to clear your head and deal with your loved one's possessions and outstanding admin, and you're fielding all of these calls, demanding to know when it's going on sale and for what price.

'nah we would get more money if you just sign up'

It really doesn't seem to enter their heads that it's your money that you have to do without, in order to give it to them, does it? They just see you as a tap to be turned on as fully as possible and couldn't care less about you as a person.

I don't make eye contact say no and keep on walking. I think a lot of people are too polite, never engage never give excuses as to why you can't donate. I have only ever been forced to stop if I have been out with polite friends.

respond in a foreign language. Of course you may encounter one that knows said language, but it’s unlikely.

Had one near where I used to work that ignored my ignoring him, then ignored my ‘no’, then awkwardly walked with me down the street giving the patter until he stopped and yelled after me that I was rude. Got my own back a month later when he tried it again, clearly not recognizing me. I pretended I didn’t speak a word of English, and I saw that he totally gave up as soon as a foreign sentence started emerging from my mouth. I, however, feigned great interest and had him stood there for twenty minutes with google translate, looking like a trapped animal. I then walked off. I saw him after that but strangely enough he didn’t approach me again. Childish as hell of me, but hey ho.

Thanks for the heads up.

I was way too polite and tolerant of these people in the past. Generally now I just avoid eye contact, ignore and keep walking. If they shout something I pretend I didn't hear and keep walking.

If they approach me I just smile benignly, stare through them in a dazed/confused way and keep walking.

The key thing is to keep walking briskly and not speak at all. They'll give up eventually.

If they phone me or knock on the door I don't let them get through their initial speech or answer any questions, I just say "no thank you" and close the door or hang up.

You owe them nothing and I disagree with their tactics and behaviour so I don't feel bad about doing this.

Surely any decent charity should not use chuggers. It seems to me that the charities that use them are the ones to blame and don't deserve our money.
Is there a list of the culprits? It loses the whole sector so much goodwill.

Such a waste of society's resources as well when there is a shortage of workers in hospitality and care etc.

I hate these chugger people! It doesn't seem as bad as it used be but a few years ago going into town felt like running in the gauntlet - there were just so many and it made walking through the city centre incredibly unpleasant.

I refuse to give to any charity that employs these kind of methods.

I second this. I’ve seen charities drag families through the courts until there is nothing left. I know they have a duty to get as much money for the charity as possible but they really have no limits. Our will goes through about every person I can think of and if there is no one left it’s left to three charities to fight it out amongst themselves.

My house and any money is going to be split between my 3 children...charity begins at home.

Its not an exaggeration, they are muggers.

Charity Muggers hence chuggers.

The charities endlessly hassling for their share of my MIL’s estate were large “respectable” charities like MacMillan. A bit fucking ironic when she had died of cancer that they were sending letters every month demanding their money.

Make one off donations during your life and do not allow them to contact you, especially not by phone. The last thing you want as you get older and more vulnerable is charity phone chuggers pursuing you in your house.

Or make a donation to a much smaller charity and one that doesn’t use chuggers. I donate to the Rabbit Welfare Association who send about 1 email every 3 months in a very unassuming way. I feel that donations make more impact to small charities and that they are actually focussed on the work they do rather than becoming “about” the CEOs and machinery that a huge charity needs to sustain itself.

Its not an exaggeration, they are muggers.

Charity Muggers hence chuggers.

It's true: not all muggers will hold you at gun-point; a lot will use 'confidence trickery' in the same way that these people do.

To be honest, at least a 'standard' mugger will be upfront that they want your money because they clearly want to keep it for themselves, and won't make any bones about doing it to be benevolent; I find it even more disgraceful when people will claim to be doing it 'for charity' when they know full-well that, at best, the charity won't see any of the money donated for most of the first year, and at worst, loads of people (who were coerced into signing up in the first place) will cancel before the charity ever sees a penny.

The charities endlessly hassling for their share of my MIL’s estate were large “respectable” charities like MacMillan. A bit fucking ironic when she had died of cancer that they were sending letters every month demanding their money.

I think a lot of them want the best of both worlds: they expect to be turning over a lot of money as their right, like a regular business; but unlike a business, they don't have to provide goods or a service in return and expect to emotionally blackmail you into keeping on giving.

If you contact, say, Sky, when your contract is up, and say you want to cancel, they will do everything they can to persuade you to stay, as they clearly want to keep your business, but everybody knows the score and what each other gets from the business relationship: they won't threaten that children will die or sick puppies go untreated if you go ahead and cancel.

Also, if you do want to give money to a charity(ies) after you die, at the very least give a set amount and not a percentage of your estate/proceeds of your house. They will vehemently rail against you doing this (if they know about your intentions), as they know that a £1,000 bequest made when you're 30 will be worth a tiny fraction of that in real terms when you die at 90.

By contrast, if your estate includes a house that you eventually owned outright, they know that their bequest will keep on going up and up over the years - far more than just inflation - hence their keenness for a percentage.

By far the best way, assuming that you trust your children/beneficiaries, is to give them clear instructions that you want them to pass on an amount/percentage of your estate to your chosen charity - but it's ultimately in their control - and don't let the charity know about it until they receive the gift. Alternatively, put it in your will, to instruct your executors, but still, don't let the charity know in advance.

Alternatively, put it in your will, to instruct your executors, but still, don't let the charity know in advance.

Unfortunately not telling them in advance won’t help. There are paid for services that sit in the probate courts and inform the charities of bequests to them. Most of the big/medium charities subscribe.

It just sounds worse and worse!

Unfortunately not telling them in advance won’t help. There are paid for services that sit in the probate courts and inform the charities of bequests to them. Most of the big/medium charities subscribe.

Ah, I didn't know that - interesting. We recently executed a relative's will and found it quite difficult to get in touch with the local charity she'd left a bequest to - they never answered the phone or got back to us - and they then took ages to cash the cheque!

I suppose, if it's 'only' after probate, at least they can't be actively sizing you and your estate up for years before you die - having your name and DoB on a database that uses algorithms to predict when they might hope to get their hands on your cash.

No it wasn't made clear at all. It wasn't even made clear to those of us working for the company...I only found out by accident after my drunken boss let it slip. The whole thing felt like a giant scam and I left. Met some very interesting people on the streets though, and really learned how to talk to people. Would never ever do it again though.

It just sounds worse and worse!

I suppose, being fair about it, if they have been left a bequest in a will, then it prevents them from being denied it if the executor should just try to pocket it themselves or delay passing it on for years - so I can sort of see why such a service would have a place.

I think the main thing would be how they use that information - do they mark it on a 'future income' balance sheet and wait patiently for a reasonable amount of time until everything has gone through and the executors can pass it on to them; or do they pounce on it and immediately start harassing the executors - who are likely also grieving family members - with their hands out?

Yes that's a point. I'm redoing my will so it's lots to think about.

The whole thing felt like a giant scam and I left.

Hmm, I can imagine why it felt like that....

They probably factor in the people with a conscience like you, who leave them when they get wind of what they're up to, and just rely on the hardline, ruthless ones to see what's in it for them, do handsomely well for themselves and the agency, and stuff any semblance of ethical behaviour.