5 Month Old Sleep HELP!!!

[LemonSwan]

I am at breaking point. I am not getting enough sleep and it’s making me an awful mother and partner. I feel like my body is on adrenaline it’s making me quick to anger and irrational rage. I do not like myself right now. I don’t think DP does either. I feel like I am at war with an intangible thing - routine, feeds, night. Of which we don’t have a consistent anything so my never ending reading on the topic results in knowing a thousand things we are doing wrong which I can’t even apply to the unexistent routine.

If that makes no sense I apologise! I haven’t had an unbroken deep sleep in 5 months.

LO is currently waking every couple of hours at night, and not consistently napping in the day. On a good day has 3 naps of 45 minutes. On a usual bad day has probably 2 naps. I am still bf. We introduced a formula bottle to try to help. It didn’t. Bedtime is around 8.30pm. Wake around 8am

My partner is really trying to help. He gets up with little one in the morning which allows me some sleep then. I don’t know whether this has made it worse in a way as it’s as if our LO feeds at larger intervals then in the morning (c. 3 hr gap) than at night and perhaps he’s moved his feed times to accommodate?

DP and I are having disagreements about routine. He bought LO up this morning to wake me for a feed. This is when I wanted to put him down to a nap because he hadn’t had a morning nap yet (11am). But partner wanted to take him for a walk. Which angered me as everything I read says we need to get him to sleep in his own crib as it will help with self settling and the night. We had a disagreement about that. Maybe IABU I have no idea anymore.

Anyone please. What are your routines? Any tips? Any ideas.

I am open to the sleep training but I feel our LO needs consistency and day routine before we even attempt that.

I also feel I just need to switch to formula so I can get a full nights sleep and leave DP with LO for a couple of nights so I can reset and return to my normal self. That seems the nuclear option.

MIL says weaning will help and he’s just hungry. But then we added the formula bottle and he will still awake within an hour or two when I read they can’t even digest it in that time.

Thanks in advance if anyone can offer anything at all.

Sleep deprivation is the worst. Perhaps getting in touch with a sleep consultant will help. Fernsleepconsulting is a lovely lady I knew whilst nannying. She's worked miracles for many families.

I know this is rough but you don't need to stop bf nor do you need to stress about a routine. 5 months is so little still. Honestly, sounds normal. I wouldn't even think about sleep training at this age - far too small.

Forget whatever you're reading online about expectations and do whatever gets you the most sleep/rest. For me that was cosleeping on a floor bed from 5 months. Game changing.

My LO is 18 months now and sleeps just fine alone, with very few wakes and I have never sleep trained. It just takes time.

I followed the Baby Sleep Consultant on Instagram and bought her program which enables you to email help desk for advice.

Ended up buying the Sleep Guide, stuck to the age routine and was diligent about putting down. Bit painful at start but now sleeps through the night and takes her naps happily!

Goodness the rage is unreal in those early months isn't it. I'm about to have my second and I wish I'd had the hindsight I do now! There's so much focus and pressure to get them in a quick routine and getting them settled In their cot and I was obsessed with online reading and took it all to heart but honestly if your partner wants to take them for a walk in the pram and they're due a sleep then bite his arm off! They will learn to self settle eventually and things will fall into place which I remember not being able to comprehend at the time. I wish I'd been significantly less rigid with my first and I'm hoping to put that into practice this second time.
In short, send your partner for his walk with baby and put your feet up!

Firstly, your MIL need to calm down with the weaning. If your baby is hungry then weaning won’t help as they don’t eat much in the beginning. People of that generation are just obsessed with getting solid food into them. But it’s right around the corner anyway.

Sod the sleeping in the crib thing, it doesn’t make a dramatic amount of difference in my experience. If your other half can get the baby out for a couple of hours then absolutely let him do that because you need to get a chunk of uninterrupted sleep in.

I have a 4 month old and I'm also breastfeeding. This one is my second child so I'm putting a lot less pressure on myself this time. Personally I wouldn't give up the bf. I'm currently being woken hourly through the night and it's painful! But once you come out the other side (and isn't it awful that no one can predict when that will be!) you might be glad you stuck at the feeding. I know I was with my first.

That being said, just do whatever you need to do. It's about survival. I call what we have a "pattern" rather than a routine. Look at wake windows. How long after waking from a nap does your little one starts yawning etc. I build my day round wake windows of about 90 minutes at the moment. Rather than looking at the clock and saying 1pm is nap time.

What time do you go to sleep at night? I'm going to sleep at 8pm at the moment! Awful sacrificing my evenings but it gives me an extra couple of hours sleep.

You do not need to make your 5 month old sleep in the cot for all naps. You will tie yourself in knots trying to make it happen when in reality most babies do not have long naps at that age and most still don’t nap in the cot. There is nothing wrong with the baby sleeping in the pram on a walk, in fact it is probably the easiest thing.

Really 5 months is just too early for routines to properly ‘work’ and baby is still unlikely to sleep all night at that age.

Expectation is the most important thing imo, if you expect long naps and long chunks of sleep at night at 5 months you are probably going to be disappointed. Imo it’s still the survival stage and you just do what works. Walk the baby for naps, put them in the sling, it’s way too young for ‘bad habits’. My baby started sleeping through reliably at 10/11 months.

Ok perhaps this is an expectation issue. Up until around a month ago I was a zombie but wasn’t having these rage issues.

I think the change occurred when I found out most of my nct group were having unbroken nights sleep/ 1 predictable wake. And then that started my war on the intangible which led to exasperation that I couldn’t even change something which didn’t exist (routine) and the rage has emerged the last week or so.

I don’t think the nct lot are lying. They are all lovely and we are very open, supportive and non competitive as a group.

They are all ff though and have solid routines.

This is all normal. Forget the self settling in the crib bullshit - that’s all nonsense. Weaning won’t help either. And you cannot “sleep train” a 5 month old.

Sleep is developmental. Have a read of this:
sarahockwell-smith.com/2017/07/24/the-rollercoaster-of-real-baby-sleep/

That talks to you about the reality of baby sleep. It isn’t linear so it doesn’t just get better as they get older.

Oh I’ve been there. Baby sleep isn’t linear for that first ~ 18 months though, just because their babies were sleeping through doesn’t mean they always will be. And you may have just found a dud group haha. My friends killed me with this and would say things like “oh I just love my sleep so much!” As if I didn’t?! As if loving sleep magically makes your baby sleep?! Then I met a group of friends who’s babies had similar sleep to mine and it was incredible. They were a great support group. I think 4-6 months is the worst bit for sleep!

Lyndsey Hookway on IG is great if you’ve not found her.

I have a 5 month old. They are still so small, and don't know about schedules and routines. My baby doesn't nap (20 mins X 3), or sleep well (wakes every 1-2 hours all night long) and I've decided to just safely co-sleep and not stress. I have a toddler and dog and it isn't easy.

I'd take the pressure of yourself, safely co sleep if you can (check out the lullaby trust advice), and throw routine out of the window until baby is a year or so. I battled with my first child and it made everyone utterly miserable.

I’ve been there and really, it is normal. They’re too little for routines and the sleep trainers are all just trying to sell you something.

Get in bed and nap with your baby. For every nap. Even if you can’t sleep just have a cuppa and a rest to recharge. Cosleep at night. Some babies just sleep better beside you. If they’ll take a dummy try popping that in overnight but know that breastfed babies need to feed more frequently. Learn to feed lying down so your sleep isn’t as disturbed. Let your partner take the baby for a walk at nap times – pram and car seat naps are a godsend!

All of the above helped me, I hope some is useful for you too!

My 6 month old BF baby slept soundly from 11pm till 7am from 1 month until 5 months, with the odd wake in the night for a feed (though with very unpredictable day time naps). Then she got unwell, kept waking after an hour or so and now spends half the night cosleeping with me even though she's better again🤷‍♀️ I know sleep training works for some but I'd say just work out what works best for you getting the most sleep you can in the immediate term (whether that's sleeping in the pram with dad, cosleeping with you etc) and then work out a longer term strategy when you feel a bit more rested ( with the assumption that baby may not agree with any long term plan you make 😅)
Remember, it's awful when you're not sleeping but they will eventually sleep better!

Hi, bottle fed my first and he didn't start consistently sleeping longer 3 hours at night until he went into his room.

You and partner sound like really stressed out trying to find a solution and have a perfect sleeping baby. Sometimes it just won't happen and maybe shift the focus to how to cope.

Take turns to rest/sleep in and if the weather is nice outside - let the baby sleep in the pram and get some outside fresh air.

Winter is coming so when you can get out - do it

decide on an age appropriate schedule for sleep and naps and then sleep train. We used Ferber at 6m and it was revolutionary. Hands down the single best decision I’ve ever made. He’s nearly three now and sleeps 615pm-7am reliably with a 30m nap in the day. It’s been amazing.

I would also suggest joining a good evidence based sleep group on Facebook for support and advice. So much nonsense bandied around about how terrible sleep can’t be helped and you just have to ride it out and take baby’s lead, that isn’t always possible for everyone and plenty of parents take that approach and end up with terribly sleeping 3yr olds, awful job performance, poor health and damaged marriages! It’s okay to want to help your child get good quality restful sleep. For many people it’s absolutely essential after a certain point.

I was in your position a few months ago. It's easy to say now but accepting it made me feel so much better.

I think about 6/7 months my DS fell into his own routine (3 naps a day, now on 2). I still don't get a full night's sleep but manage okay unless it's been a very bad night.

Social media can be a bit of an echo chamber - I tied myself into knots reading about routine, self soothing, proper sleep etc. As pp said, look at Sarah ockwell-smith, rosaby_sleep,
Lyndsey_hookway on Instagram instead if you want the other side (not promoting sleep training). It's really tough when it seems like everyone's baby sleeps better than yours but I don't want to do sleep training (though that's a personal decision I don't like to judge on).

What I can tell you is that at 11months we only get woken up 2/3 times a night so he is linking sleep cycles. I have to feed or cuddle him to sleep still but I don't mind.

We tend not to nap in the cot, rather in the car or pram. I find that actually suits me well as I'm not tied to being at home at certain times - I can fit it around going places or dog walks.

I do think a lot of this is about your expectation.

I got unbroken night sleeps from day 1 with my first, because she was formula fed and we alternated nights.

My second, I think my first unbroken 6hr+ stretch was around the year mark - and that was during the day. She was bf, and refused bottles from birth (or I'd have mixed or formula fed her). She woke hourly for 18m - I had no chance of rest in the day because of working (from 3m) and having an older child to care for.

You can choose to sleep train, or wait until they are ready 🤷‍♀️

We found ways of getting me more rest - my husband would deal with all mornings and I'd get up as late as I could. He'd take them out for as long as he could (boobs permitting). The answer for you may be to do more mix feeding so he can share the nights better, but that doesn't mean giving up boobs as well, unless you want to.

I read somewhere that it either takes time or tears. Personally, I'm really pleased in hindsight that we managed the time rather than the tears aporoach, although it was very difficult - especially with juggling work.

ps, weaning made no difference with sleep, and my ff baby had a middle of the night feed until 15m, and didn't start reliably sleeping through until 3 (and then stopped again at 4, lol)

I think some elements of a routine can be useful as in I have with both of mine done bath, feed and down about 6-7 but at 5 months this was put down in the Moses basket downstairs with us generally and then go up with them about 10 for a feed and down in their crib in our room. In the morning I would try and have us both dressed by 9ish purely because for me I liked to feel like I was starting the day and gave me a routine. Other than these things routine wasn't so set, they slept either it Moses basket/cot or in the buggy if I wanted to go out for a walk or to an activity might also be in the car. I wouldn't worry about every nap being in the cot else that can be quite isolating which when tired just makes you feel worse. Hang in there, the saying in our house was 'this too shall pass'

Depending on how you feel in general there is a postpartum condition called postpartum rage (only saying that as you mentioned irrational rage).

Regarding sleep, the best advice i’d recommend would be to try and get a rough routine in place for daytime naps as that will really help night sleep. A 5 month old would probably need putting down every 2.5/3 hours

8:00 wake
10:30 nap
1:00 ish nap
5pm nap short nap
7 bath
8 bed

there’s loads of free sleep resources on Instagram that could really help you 🙂

Babies are hard, no sleep is shit but it’s so normal and you are doing an amazing job x

OP, I just had the same conversation with a friend in same place as you and thought it may be 'reverse cycling.' It's when a baby takes more calories at night rather than the day, leading to more frequent night wakings.

I think we had this problem. As I was being on demand but demand seemed to be higher at night and it was honestly killing me. I did everything pp have suggested here, I went with the floe, tried to nap when she did and coslept but it was destroying me. Cosleeping didn't help as I was too nervous to go into a deep sleep and was still waking to feed every 2 hours at least.

When I think about it moving to a routine was likely not just about sleep but it made sure she got enough calories during day.

Our current routine at 5 months is:
7: wake and full feed

9: nap routine and sleep by 9:15
10: wake
10:30: half milk feed top up at 11
12: nap if wakes before 2 try to resettle (sometimes easier said than done)
2pm: wake
2:30: feed.
4:30: nap (apparently this is the hardest one)
5 wake and half feed
6:15: bath /bed routine/feed (I give bottle of formula here
7pm: bed

It sounds rigid but you can be flexible and do naps on the go, I usually do with the morning and lunch nap. And if we are out for the day, she will just do shorter naps in pram.

But the consistency of it has paid off and we are lucky that once she is down for the night she stays down. Honestly, it saved me and we are all, baby included, doing much better!

I don’t have a routine and I’ve never forced one with any of mine. I bedshare, I do sleep, I feed when they want and I’ve never bothered my arse about what anyone says is the right or wrong way to do things if something was working for me. Don’t stress yourself over routines or doing what the books say. Just do what works for you and your family.

Thanks all.

I am very grateful for all the advice.

DP and Is bickering continues.

I don’t think I do have medical PP rage as surely that would have come on much sooner? I have just never done well with little sleep and DP and I seem to now be in a cycle with DP.

I made a purposeful effort today to stay calm even when I didn’t feel so and watch my tone really carefully. I can’t get a sentence out without being interrupted halfway through with ‘but’ or DP thinking I am trying to say something about him rather than me (ie. Me saying I am tired is me saying he doesn’t do anything) - I don’t know how to break that cycle.

DP thinks everything is a feeding issue which is what he reverts too when he’s facing the intangible war.

We just started again having a reasonable discussion about potential routines which dissolved into wanting to formula feed as he thinks that will solve all the issues (routine/ night sleep) and so he can send him to his mums so he doesn’t get a delayed start to his workday (whilst I lie in) or any interruptions when I ask him for a break; (works from home for our company of which nothing is super high time pressured - part time design with a few evening meetings here and there and the occasional full early away day).

Apparently me lieing in is also the problem as he wants to start at 8.

I just can’t see the woods for the trees. It’s all my fault apparently.

And no I don’t want to ship my LO off to the mil