To think that men SHOULD be encouraged to be on MumsNet

[BrokenLawnmower]

Obligatory: "man here" for anyone who would like to stop reading now 😆

I've been a member of MN (and other parenting forums where the members are, for whatever reason, mostly female) for about 15 years and I like to think that my exposure and involvement in these communities has given me valuable insight into women's issues.

If only in small ways, I truly believe it has made me a different (better?) man. I've had so many of my assumptions challenged and over time I have grown to accept that I am, without a doubt, part of the patriarchy that women are forced to cope with every day.

By and large, I also really like the people here.

Do the women of MN think that the men in their lives would also benefit from this experience?

YABU = They shouldn't be on MN
YANBU = They should be on MN

This thread has opened my eyes a bit. I didn't know people would have strong objections to men being on here. I've found it useful for parenting and pregnancy info, and I enjoy reading the AIBU cos sometimes they're really witty 😀 I feel no need for it to be a female space, but I personally don't tend to need that in real life either. Hypothetically, if this was simply a parenting website, exactly the same just with equal numbers of men and women, I'd be just as happy with it.

I also think the more boys and men are informed about pregnancy, birth and everything to do with childcare, the better. Not quite the same, but I really think both boys and girls should be informed in detail about the physical facts of childbirth and patenting in schools. How many men are well into their adult years before they learn about third degree tears, for example? Or all the different complications that can occur during birth? How many make decisions about having children without really comprehending the reality of pregnancy, birth and parenting for all involved? And are then shell-shocked at the birth (esp when things go wrong). There are loving, decent men who had no idea what the person they love most will have to endure.

I can’t say I’ve noticed a plethora of mansplaining or self-aggrandising Man Here posts tbh. There are far more posts questioning why men are on Mumsnet.

People also claim to always recognise when it’s a man posting, but they rarely can know that for sure. I think there are plenty of men here respecting the space and not feeling the need to announce themselves.

^MolliciousIntent
Women's thoughts and experiences aren't learning opportunities for men.^
*I can't disagree with that.

Where can these learning opportunities be for men who have never been exposed to them? Family, school and the media? Popular culture?*

From each other - you can influence other men.

From lurking here.

From posting here in good faith, not mansplaining or looking for puppy points.

So much of the Internet is male dominated. There aren't that many online spaces where women are the majority.
I'm active in a women only forum and the difference in the interactions there is so obviously different to other forums I use - respectful debate and disagreement and a real emphasis on support.

I have no issue with men lurking here to understand women's perspectives, in fact I love that there are men out there interested to do that. I have no issue with men commenting or seeking a female point of view.
But I absolutely would not like for MN to encourage men to be here, this is somewhere I come to hear other women's opinions, to see women's views on politics, motherhood, feminism, CFs parking on your drive, etc.
MN would just be like every other corner of the internet if we lost the significant female majority.

I've never felt the "man here" was from a mansplaining/superiority perspective more..."I'm a man, I may be talking shit so feel free to scroll on"... I generally assume posters to be female so it's useful to know if one isn't.
I share MN posts with my dh so he learns that way. I don't have issue with men lurking and learning, but I guess there could be nefarious reasons for some men to do so...presumably the more educated they are about some issues the more calculated and clever those men can be if they have abusive/narcissist/other tendencies. I suppose that's the fear.

I’m not sure that ‘encouraged’ would be the word I’d use. But I think an amount of male traffic is to be expected on one of the UK’s most populated and visited internet forums.

I think the idea of MN being an almost entirely female space is unrealistic in 2022 really. It probably was in 2006 but much less so now.

Also, I really get quite irritated at this concept of ‘learning from’ women.

First, the experiences of women are not primarily a teachable moment. And women are also not a hive mind who all think the same about everything.

And second, it presupposes this rather patronising idea that women are right all the time, never make mistakes, and tell the truth on every post. None of these things are necessarily correct. Plenty of the made-up, misleading or stultifyingly ill-informed bollocks on here comes from women posters as well as men.

I don't like men being on here.

I like mn as it is a space for women to talk freely about issues that only affect women. As soon as a man's voice joins the conversation it's not just about women anymore.

I agree to some extent but I think it is actually very useful for vulnerable, conditioned women posting on her about eg abuse, inappropriate behaviour etc. when a male adds his voice to the condemnation or the assertion that her partner's behaviour is not normal or that her partner's opinions are not normal/shared by all men. Because otherwise it can become a situation where almost 100 per cent of women ard telling her it's wrong, but no men ... So she wonders of this isn't just an exceptional little pocket of (only) women with exceptional (or even odd) standards, and it's because they're women that they share that opinion, and that when it comes to men, "all men are like that". When a man/men posts here clearly stating he does not share her partner's opinion, or does not act like her partner, or roundly comdems her partner; it's everybody, it's both sexes, it's not "a man thing" for her partner to be behaving like that. I think that can be very helpful.

Good points and I think that it's just about showing sensitivity. There are lots of gender neutral threads and I can't see the harm in men or women posting in them. There are some that IMO are ones that it would be more appropriate for female only.

You're right - it's not realistic that such a popular forum is female only. TBF, trolls of either gender get short shrift on here anyway!

I also find most of the men who stay on here and become regulars are reasonable.

The dickheads almost never hang around for long; because they can't take the kickback and run off mumbling "crazy feminazis" to themselves.

The only place dickheads persist is the sex forum and that's a different kettle of fish.

I think one of the reasons women are so open and honest here is because you are talking mainly to other women.
If there were too many men it would change.
But I don't mind men being on here, or when they chip in. I don't mind 'man here' either.
I don't think you'd learn as much by simply talking and listening to the women in your life. This is a place women talk to each other in a totally different way to how we do in the real world.
For one reason or another I ended up lurking on a subreddit for men talking about porn addiction, supporting each other, talking about how it had ruined their lives and relationships. It was enlightening and I definitely wasn't supposed to be there. I didn't pipe up though.

There's nothing stopping men using MN obviously, and plenty do.

Encouraged though? No. As others say why should we give up one of the few mainly female virtual spaces on the internet by actively encouraging men to come in?

The vast majority of internet forums are overwhelmingly male, and no attempts are made to make them comfortable and welcoming to women.

In fact I can thinkmof one or two who give reasonsnle and respectful perspectives, in string contrast to the 30/40 (?) Per cent of women on here who are shouty, aggressive, derogatory, scathing, accusatory etc. to often quite vulnerable posters; ridiculing them, giving them orders etc. And quite often not even reading their posts with enough care to even grasp basic facts or relevant facts about their situation.

Actually OP l have changed my outlook on a lot of things and just become more open to things since joining MN so yes l see your point.

No. I’m sick of men infiltrating women only spaces. They always have a negative impact. I wouldn’t join a site called Dadsnet but there we are, I’m not a man.

The Op came on, stated he was a man and started a thread about what we think about men being on the website...We all proceed to discuss the premise of men on MN...Wtf? It speaks fir itself.

I have lurked on hear for years now, formed many opinions and questions and taken them into my real life with great effect in real life.
I've never felt the need to come on here and start a thread about what others might think about me being here.
I don't know of any male forums for similar discussions but if I went on to lurk and learn for myself I don't forsee me thinking, oh I want to know what the menz think about me being here because I would know the picture already...

I don't mind men looking at mumsnet.
I don't mind a few posts.
But no, I don't think men should be encouraged to actively engage with mumsnet.
Women should be able to have good stuff for women, without it being turned into an educational tool for men, or lose its value and identity as a female space.

That's a fair point. If you want to post on here - crack on - if anyone acts like an idiot then they'll get called out on it.

If more men were on here it would be about men’s issues, not women’s. So they would learn nothing. Women’s voices and issues are always pushed into second place by men.

There's no danger of that happening - the Dadsnet forum on Mumsnet is hardly ever posted in.

Meh

*The vast majority of men don’t come on here with an open mind, willing to change.

They come on here to tell us how we’re all wrong*

the vast majority of posters here are female and just look at the threads to see that there is as much nasty behaviour from our own gender as males.

Agree RoseGallica. I came to mumsnet because it's for women. It will be a shame if I have to leave a women's space because of men.

I disagree, if a man is willing to listen to our thoughts and experiences and use them to learn from then surely that's a good thing and it's exactly what a lot of us women are doing

the problem is that women here don't all agree on the same things.What onme woman thinks is acceptable, 5 others don't.

Quite honestly I listen to men's perspectives all day long and, much as I love them, the reason I use Mumsnet is because female is the default sex.
I know anyone can post here but if men were actively encouraged to join in it would completely change the site and I'd be off.
Men who want to know and understand a bit more are welcome to lurk and read.