AIBU?
To ask about usual chestnut with secondary school decisions
Onthedowns · 06/10/2022 21:21
So we have a realistic choice between two schools. One is an established school historically great academically, recently in 2019 became an academy. School is split into two sites lower (years 7 and 8) and upper. Both old and facilties are there but not great it's an old school, used to be a girls Catholic boarding school - the nuns still live on site. The upper school is in need of refurbishment or rebuilding however they are on the government list for funding for this. (however appreciate current government means this might be delayed!,) This one is a 20mins bus ride away as we are out of catchment. Roughly £80 a term. I love it and my DD does too. Headteacher very welcoming, good structure, discipline. Kids all dressed smartly polite etc
Catchment school 10 min walk. Fantastic top class new facilties. Been an academy for 9 years. However up until earlier this year was in requires improvement. Now is a good school. Historically Academic results are not great,however this could be improving. Was always under subscribed and catchment now opened up. Hasn't the best reputation for discipline and disruptive children etc. Open evening was great but felt like head was selling a product not a school 🤷🏼♀️. Pupils friendly but felt a bit disorganised bit messy etc uniform wise. Didn't hate it didn't love it either. DD hasn't viewed yet. All years in one school and its absolutely huge! Mixed parent reviews
It would make my life easier to go here less costs better facilities. I don't have to worry about ferrying to and from local friends. After school clubs she can walk home.
How much of this makes a difference to parents ? DD is academic but loves sport too. I think she would be ok at local but worry she will just coast rather than be pushed to her best ?
It's giving me such stress deciding
Am I being unreasonable?
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Karamna · 07/10/2022 10:44
This is the concerning thing:
The other school was requires improvement for many years and yes does have a larger cohort of disadvantaged pupils and higher absenteeism. This was reflected in high staff turnover and lower overall gcse results. Historical bad reputation for trouble and disruption .
Like others, I have taught in a school like this and would never send my child there, no matter how nice the facilities were. The teachers will be stressed and overworked , trying to crowd control rather than having time to plan great lessons, they will be less experienced if there is high staff turnover.
I would strongly strongly recommend the school with good discipline and polite, engaged students. This is the reason it's getting better results and it's simply not true that clever students will achieve their potential anywhere. I could have given my keen students so much more if I hadn't been trying to manage the ones that were climbing out windows and tearing up their books.
Onthedowns · 07/10/2022 12:07
Karamna · 07/10/2022 10:44
This is the concerning thing:
The other school was requires improvement for many years and yes does have a larger cohort of disadvantaged pupils and higher absenteeism. This was reflected in high staff turnover and lower overall gcse results. Historical bad reputation for trouble and disruption .
Like others, I have taught in a school like this and would never send my child there, no matter how nice the facilities were. The teachers will be stressed and overworked , trying to crowd control rather than having time to plan great lessons, they will be less experienced if there is high staff turnover.
I would strongly strongly recommend the school with good discipline and polite, engaged students. This is the reason it's getting better results and it's simply not true that clever students will achieve their potential anywhere. I could have given my keen students so much more if I hadn't been trying to manage the ones that were climbing out windows and tearing up their books.
This is the issue for me. It is improving hence recent ofsted but unfortunately it's reputation precedes it but its trying to shake that off. And many parents have said if your child wants to get on they will 🤔.
Some of dds friends will be there but based on the size of school I don't believe it's a massive factor. She knows some children also going to 1st school. But the new academy status, lack of facilities and lack of transport after school is an issue also .
It's not life changing but still a hard decision
Onthedowns · 07/10/2022 12:09
lannistunut · 07/10/2022 10:30
Maybe the reason you can't decide easily is that both are fine. Not everything has to be a major life changing decision and as the biggest single factor which will impact a child's outcomes is home, the difference between decent school A and decent school B must be marginal.
In which case, if I was being pragmatic I would either pick the one that would benefit the rest of her life the most (easy commute, local friends are worth a lot) or I would just apply for the one that is hardest to get into because then if it turns out to be crap you have a higher chance of getting a speedy transfer to the other, and if it turns out to be good then that's all fine.
My poor home school life didn't impact me. In fact my teachers and schooling did otherwise I would have been left out to dry and not attained any qualifications
SarahSissions · 07/10/2022 12:13
Why would you send your daughter to a school where she could just do ok, when with a little effort you could send her to one where she could do much better?
a better education will give her many more choices in life-it seems like a bit of a no brainer to me
Onthedowns · 07/10/2022 13:55
SarahSissions · 07/10/2022 12:13
Why would you send your daughter to a school where she could just do ok, when with a little effort you could send her to one where she could do much better?
a better education will give her many more choices in life-it seems like a bit of a no brainer to me
I am trying to think of other issues which will affect her schooling, travel lack of facilities and maybe opportunities ? Plus I have another primary child and could not drop off daily or pick up reliablely
OhmygodDont · 07/10/2022 20:02
You do need to add it all up. A school further away means more pick ups if she wants to do clubs or just no clubs if there is only one bus, also more likely for friends to be further away so more driving her places to socialise.
closer school means she can walk/bike, do all before or after school clubs she wants and friends more likely to be on the door stop.
But that’s a small part of it all, you then need to look as pastoral care, just because she’s a brilliant happy and health teenager now doesn’t mean she won’t need or want that support at some point.
facilities depending on what, a old basket ball court is one thing vs out of date software and science kit.
what is any links the school has with other places be that other schools, companies and places for apprenticeships etc
with regards to disruptive children those children are already there in other year groups, that doesn’t mean her year group or class will or won’t be disruptive.
My middle has put down two very very different types of schools for her first and second. Her first choice there is only a handful of schools like it in the U.K. they don’t follow a full curriculum, They drop every subject that’s not a mandatory subject after year 8/9 and follow their own way of thing for more specialist learning.
my oldest child goes to a school that’s an hour on the busses and it means his up earlier than his siblings, his the last one home, if he wants to hang out with friends it’s an hour bus trip or only if dads home with the car. No spontaneous text or knock at the door it’s all got to be well planned but his doing amazing at his school. Swings and roundabouts.
GnarlyOldGoatDude · 07/10/2022 20:08
@Onthedowns I’m also near you and know the schools involved, and the likely girls school you’re looking at (D?)
Another factor to throw into the mix is any younger siblings- would you want them at the same school, and is there sibling priority at School 1 if you’re not catchment? Or are you catchment?
FWIW I know people with kids at school 1 and school 2, and both have their positives and negatives. We are lucky in that all the big state secondaries round here are pretty good. Some people are delighted with #2 and the pastoral care, and the facilities are outstanding and modern. Others are not so enamoured. I know a teacher at school 2 who is absolutely amazing; however we didn’t even look at school 2 for many of the reasons you’ve mentioned.
How your DD feels about them both is definitely important, but ultimately I think the choice has to be made by you. And I think you would be forcing yourself to choose #2 for logistics, when your heart says #1.
I also know of several pupils who have moved between various of the 3 big local schools within years 7-9, although obviously that depends on a place becoming available, which is never guaranteed.
good luck, it’s really tricky, and feels like a really important choice 💐
Onthedowns · 07/10/2022 20:28
GnarlyOldGoatDude · 07/10/2022 20:08
@Onthedowns I’m also near you and know the schools involved, and the likely girls school you’re looking at (D?)
Another factor to throw into the mix is any younger siblings- would you want them at the same school, and is there sibling priority at School 1 if you’re not catchment? Or are you catchment?
FWIW I know people with kids at school 1 and school 2, and both have their positives and negatives. We are lucky in that all the big state secondaries round here are pretty good. Some people are delighted with #2 and the pastoral care, and the facilities are outstanding and modern. Others are not so enamoured. I know a teacher at school 2 who is absolutely amazing; however we didn’t even look at school 2 for many of the reasons you’ve mentioned.
How your DD feels about them both is definitely important, but ultimately I think the choice has to be made by you. And I think you would be forcing yourself to choose #2 for logistics, when your heart says #1.
I also know of several pupils who have moved between various of the 3 big local schools within years 7-9, although obviously that depends on a place becoming available, which is never guaranteed.
good luck, it’s really tricky, and feels like a really important choice 💐
Yes you must be pretty near. Thank you its really helpful. Myself and DD love #1 but logistically it could be a nightmare. However i got the train to school and never suffered friend wise, I had friends in both areas. Some of the facilities in #1 are older style science labs etc
School #2 has the most up to date of everything but i feel that this has been previously compensation for the poor teaching and students.
The girls school again is a nightmare logistically but we felt important for DD to see.
I have a 4 year gap and DS I don't think would suit school #2 but by then DD will be leaning and #1 could well have had a face-lift 🤦♀️🤷🏼♀️
dizzydizzydizzy · 07/10/2022 20:50
A school within walking distance is worth a lot. In y11, both my DCs stayed late virtually every day for revision classss. Further down the school, DC1 stayed last about twice a week for clubs and sports fixtures.
I often thought of DC1's best friend who had to leave home before DC1 even got out of bed.
DC1 is extremely bright and motivated (now at a top uni) and was treated like a star in the local comp. Got lots of individual help from the teacherS.
Onthedowns · 07/10/2022 20:59
dizzydizzydizzy · 07/10/2022 20:50
A school within walking distance is worth a lot. In y11, both my DCs stayed late virtually every day for revision classss. Further down the school, DC1 stayed last about twice a week for clubs and sports fixtures.
I often thought of DC1's best friend who had to leave home before DC1 even got out of bed.
DC1 is extremely bright and motivated (now at a top uni) and was treated like a star in the local comp. Got lots of individual help from the teacherS.
It's a 20 minute bus journey so DD wouldnt be leaving at crack of dawn but yes the after school is a factor
Johnnysgirl · 07/10/2022 21:10
The other school was requires improvement for many years and yes does have a larger cohort of disadvantaged pupils and higher absenteeism. This was reflected in high staff turnover and lower overall gcse results. Historical bad reputation for trouble and disruption
Do you really think it being "more pastoral" balances this out? I certainly wouldn't.
Onthedowns · 07/10/2022 22:10
GnarlyOldGoatDude · 07/10/2022 21:42
Agreed- I used to have an hour each way to secondary, bus for 45 minutes then 15 minutes walk. All in the days before mobiles too! My poor mum must have been worried sick
Johnnysgirl · 07/10/2022 21:11
A 20 minute bus journey is nothing.
I had a 10 min bus journey then 15 min train and 15 min walk too way before mobiles.
I am not worried about her travelling but the inconvenience of where it is not good bus routes home especially after school clubs. It's a definate negative.
I have lists of questions now 😂 for each for each school
Onthedowns · 08/10/2022 08:11
jeaux90 · 07/10/2022 22:19
All girls school every time.
If they have decent facilities and smaller class sizes even better.
Statistically girls do better in single sex environments
Mine goes to one 30 mins away, I drop her, she gets the coach home. It's really worth it.
Yes i understand this but again lots of bullying issues. It's very difficult and gut feeling is she would do better in mixed. But wanted to give her the choice and option to look around
jeaux90 · 08/10/2022 12:42
Gut feeling. Statistics are that girls do better in single sex environments. But you know your child better than anyone. I think what I considered was the size of the classes of the local mixed sex school and the shocking statistics of sexual assaults on girls in mixed secondary. Couple this with the illegal trend of removing female only spaces from some schools it's not a pretty picture for our girls at the moment.
Also my DD13 is ND so smaller class sizes were a must.
Onthedowns · 08/10/2022 13:02
jeaux90 · 08/10/2022 12:42
Gut feeling. Statistics are that girls do better in single sex environments. But you know your child better than anyone. I think what I considered was the size of the classes of the local mixed sex school and the shocking statistics of sexual assaults on girls in mixed secondary. Couple this with the illegal trend of removing female only spaces from some schools it's not a pretty picture for our girls at the moment.
Also my DD13 is ND so smaller class sizes were a must.
No can definately see the positives bit I am not sure my dd will fit in
gogohmm · 08/10/2022 13:26
Just be aware that everyone seems to perceive their local secondary, even if rated outstanding, to lack discipline etc because we see the kids coming out at the end of the day and hear the tales of their antics. The reality is that that most schools have issues with a few kids and boisterous behaviour after school.
Which is right for you will depend a lot on your child but I would look beyond history too - I was that kid sent to the further away school, I hated the journey
whenwillthemadnessend · 08/10/2022 14:17
I have a friend with two girls at single sex. One has thrived. The other is struggling.
You know your child and what she is comfortable with dispute all the screaming girls girls girls.
I personally think it's really old fashioned and backward to separate sexes.
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