Could it be autism? DS10 struggling and sad

[Couldtheyfly]

My son is 10 years old (year 6) and has always struggled to form friendships. He is chatty and kind and sweet but broadly speaking, not as mature or sophisticated as some of his peer group. He is mildly dyslexic and has a terrible memory so he appears a little disorganised and all over the place sometimes.

But what's really holding him back is that he can't seem to adjust his behaviour socially. He does things that annoy other children, like patting them on the back or repeating an annoying phrase. Or calling out in class and making jokes that no one else seems to be amused by. He wants to get laughs from other kids as he sees that as a way of making friends. But conversely he doesn't always want to socialise or seek out the company of other kids. He is at his most content watching a favourite TV programme on the sofa or sitting on his bedroom floor with Lego. He never builds the proper Lego set - just repeatedly plays with very small rare pieces and makes his own little figures and models. He carries Lego around with him, always has to have something, like a prop or a comfort toy.

I really don't know how to help him - school have just disciplined him very severely for annoying /calling out in class and he just seems to be getting worse. He seems lost, overloaded, all over the place. Trying desperately to make friends and get the other kids to like him but the more he tries, the more they dislike him. He's so unhappy and often cries when he talks about it at home.

My older child has recently been diagnosed with high-functioning autism. They are very different children - my older son is very academic and has some good, solid friendships.

I wonder if my DS10 has autism too, but is presenting very differently. We will seek a diagnosis, but in the meantime how can I help/support him? He ultimately needs to stop with these behaviours that are not school appropriate and annoying his peers. I don't know why he continues - he does understand other people find it annoying and it's not helping him to make friends - but that doesn't seem to deter him. I don't know if he can't help himself or he genuinely cannot judge how his words/actions will be received. Probably a bit of both ... Would love to hear any advice and or similar experiences. I feel so sad that he's having such an unhappy time at school.

Sounds more like ADHD to me. I have 4 DCs all with some sort of combination of autism and ADHD. It’s very common to have ADHD with dyslexia. He sounds a bit lost and a bit like I was when young - I will be going for an ADHD assessment sometime next year.

I would discuss this with the school, making it clear that you are not trying to make excuses, but looking for ways to get him out of this vicious circle.
Did the older sibling attend the same primary school, back in the day? It might be worth mentioning, especially if there are staff who might remember him.

Hi and thanks for responding. Can ADHD be there even without excess activity/movement? He's the opposite of always on the go.
I can't work out if he's unable to control urges to do something 'stimulating' like annoy someone, or if he genuinely thinks it will have the desired effect of engaging someone in play/a game.

Ask for him to be referred for an assessment, it’s the only way that you will know for sure.

No, older one didn't display this kind of behaviour. School have suggested setting up a lunchtime activity for him with some friendly kids and perhaps coaching in social skills. They are doing what they can but at the same time not tolerating anything which I understand - but the disciplinary action is having the opposite effect on DS and just feeding his low self esteem and narrative that he's naughty and unlikeable.

Can ADHD be there even without excess activity/movement?

Yes it can be without the hyperactivity and impulsivity - it's called 'inattentive type' and used to be called ADD. This is the type my DS has and your DS sounds quite like my DS in terms of the Lego, the being annoying, missing social cues, etc. My DS also had dyslexia and the two conditions often go hand in hand.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-adhd/symptoms/

No help on ASD/ADHD, but just sending thoughts your way. It sounds really hard and you sound like a lovely mum doing all you can to help him.

The "hyperactivity" can be internal and a mental busyness.
Sometimes it can be subtle fidgeting/ sensory input rather than the bouncing off the walls stereotype.

It does sound worth investigating neurodiveristy with school and the GP, particularly with family history.

My ds was a bit like that. Socially awkward, sometimes getting upset at the lack of friends. Not hyperactive at all. Lots of lego.

I arranged some organised activities - martial arts was good for my ds - where he could get to know other dcs without having to play the clown, and where expectations of behaviour are very defined and easy to follow.

It helped hugely with his confidence, and he's made three friends. It took a while but was definitely worth it.

Sounds a lot like my son. Marking my place and will come back later with some thoughts but you and your DS are not alone.

I would say possibly ASD. Social communication big element.

As others have said could also be ADHD.

Asked for a referral.

My eldest DC16 is not outwardly hyperactive but has more internalised hyperactivity. Constantly annoys younger siblings to get a reaction and provokes them for fun. Always had issues with friends and constantly makes enemies. Diagnosed with combined ADHD(hyperactive and inattentive)
DC 10 is bouncy and hyperactive. Impulsive and constantly thundering about. Also diagnosed with combined ADHD.

DC8 talks constantly. Fidgets and distracts everyone in class. Very popular. Diagnosed with combined ADHD.

ADHD is a tricky thing to understand and my DC with just autism is much easier in many ways.

My dd has asd and inattentive adhd. Ask school to treat him as if he has either because it might take years for a diagnosis and you do do not want his mental health to get worse.

If he is calling out in class perhaps he is self regulating and stressed underneath. Don’t stop this behaviour without finding an alternative behaviour that works for him. So perhaps doodling or playing with a toy or paper clip or blu tac under the table. If a child is self regulating or ‘masking’ ie trying to be neurotypical its harmful to stop them. Your school should know this.

Bear in mind that there are millions of children who won't get an ADHD or autism diagnosis but that are still neurodivergent - from what you've said I wonder if your child may have processing issues, working memory issues, possibly auditory processing problems, sensory issues. Could be autistic, could not.

I would pursue an assessment as he’s struggling and either way it will highlight what his difficulties are. But to help him sooner I would look into social stories, they can be really useful to clearly explain social situations to children. The social skills coaching could be really good as well.

Does he do any clubs out of school? It may be easier for him to make friends in a less formal environment.

ADHD is not just the stereotype of a hyperactive constantly on the go kid who can’t sit still. Hyperactive ADHD is the least common of the 3 types. A more inattentive ADHD is particularly difficult because they’re not seen as struggling because they’re quiet and compliant. In my experience even if a child has done well in primary with little/no support the beginning of secondary school is a massive test as pressure increases and it’s worth thinking about getting on a waiting list for assessment, either CAMHS or privately if you can.

We have started the ball rolling with assessment but feel desperate to help him in the interim.

And even with a diagnosis - how do we help? I think he's constantly overloaded with thoughts and feelings and seems to need to 'shutdown' for an hour or two to reset.

Not sure how to handle with school - as I mentioned they have just given him a huge disciplinary which I disagreed with. DS pushed a kid (no one was in any way hurt) who was part of a group being unkind to him (and as it turns out, have been making cruel comments to him for weeks). School are not going to do a u-turn on the disciplinary but in the meantime DS feels like a failure and it's not been good for his self esteem. He really, really did not want to go to school today.

@stealthninjamum, he doodles when stressed. He also often carries a comfort toy like a Lego mini figure or very small soft toy.

Trouble is, he is also distracted by these things and will probably ed up having them taken away by teachers if he's playing with them in lessons.

Considering mentioning older siblings' diagnosis to ask if they will consider this but I doubt they will

Join all the Facebook groups you can find to do with parenting kids with ADHD. This is my main source of information! This will give you the knowledge to find ways to help your son and more confidence to question school.

I try to keep things very undemanding after school. One of mine relaxes by going on the trampoline, another reads books, youngest plays Lego. It’s working out what will work for your child. All of my DCs diagnoses have given me confidence to go and ask for different things for my children. I think the SENCOs at their schools hate me 😂
If your son gets very distracted by using his hands to fidget, he might do better with a wobble cushion or something which moves his whole body (proprioceptive input) Would school let him go and have a movement/sensory break when he’s becoming dysregulated? There’s lots to think about and there’s no negative to getting a diagnosis.

ASD and ADHD often present together. This sounds very like my son, who is also 10, and he has been diagnosed with both conditions for several years now. School is intensely stressful for him, and he also plays the clown to cope. He also needs time just watching tv at home to relax and 'shut down': don't feel bad about that, it's important for him.

I agree with the suggestion that you ask the school to treat him as if he has both conditions, and to stop treating him as if he is simply naughty. They don't sound very sympathetic to neurodiversity at all! And get an assessment if you possibly can. We did pay privately, it was really expensive but the diagnosis has helped hugely. There are various medications for ADHD that can be very effective if you want to go down that route (many do not, but it has helped our son cope at school).

Huge sympathy OP my 8 year old struggles in some similar ways. Although her anxiety is so high it stops her acting out as you describe.

Would he be better out of mainstream?

Social stories and comic strip conversations are my go to way of explaining recurring social issues to kids with social communication difficulties.
There definitely sounds like there is something going on. If it’s ADHD or ASC you should seek assessment.

Could be ADHD/ASD, or both.

Get the ball rolling for him to be assessed as it will take a long time (unless private)

School could support by using social stories (not calling out in class/friendships/personal space), movement breaks away from the classroom and anything else more specific to his needs. Support should be based on need, not diagnosis , so they have no excuse not to support at this stage.

Get them to put plan, do, review in place and set targets (they will then have to look at the things that will help him reach the targets)

Oh, BLESS him.. no wonder he pushed another child if they were tormenting him.. how must it make kids feel if others are being cruel & they are the one getting punished? Obvs (before everyone gets on their high horse) 'violence' isn't good, but I'd expect school to take into account that he could be ND.
I have 2 ND kids, they do present very differently.
Mine used to appreciate just quiet comfort when they got home from school. Me being there if hugs were required, but not quizzing them.
Anyway you'll know all this already (teaches grandmother to suck eggs..) ;-)