To be upset that toilets at primary school turned mixed sex without being told

[Whatonearthisgoingonhere]

Aibu to be a bit upset and discombobulated to have learnt that the toilets at my child's primary school have been mixed sex for some time now. This seems like a significant change to have happened without consulting or letting parents know. Is there anything I can do about this? Do I just need to get over it and accept that this is the world now? My child has said they much prefer the way it used to be.

Has anyone challenged this with any success?

Have you asked their reasons?

Toilets at one DC school have always been mixed sex, every pair of classrooms shares a cloakroom in-between them and in each cloakroom are two toilet cubicles.

Other DC school used to have girls toilets and boys toilets, girls were at one end of school and boys were at the other end (it's an old building and 100yrs ago they had the girls side of school and the boys side of school). During covid when they had to minimise DC moving around and maintain bubbles they had to make them single sex and found it worked much better as DC no long had to traipse to the opposite end of school to go to the boys/girls toilet and could instead just use the one nearest them.

KS1 toilets at dc’s school have always been mixed sex. Not sure about all of them for KS2 but I know there is at least a ‘girls toilet’ as obviously at that age some are starting to go through puberty, get periods. I couldn’t be worked up about this as long as individual cubicles are private. My work ones have long been mixed sex and honestly I’ve never really thought about it. They feel nice and safe and I’m no more concerned with my male colleagues hearing me have a shit than my female ones. 😂

I wouldn’t be happy at all. I get that they are there to provide somewhere that doesn’t cause discrimination and for all children to have a toilet that they feel caters to them. It must be horrible to not know what toilet to use if you are transgender, people will complain should they not agree with them being in the f toilet for example. It’s not a disability so no good telling them to use those instead that’s insulting and alienating. I do however feel that the same standard should be held for those who identify as m/f and they have somewhere they are comfortable to go. IMO there should be at least one choice of m/f for that reason. It took us a long time to get my DD to use the toilet at school if she needed a no 2 I know she would not go at all if it was a mixed sex toilet. The school should have informed parents. Probably a council wide thing in all schools in the area I’d think.

Considering primary-aged children change for PE in the same room as the opposite sex in KS1 and most haven't hit puberty until secondary, I can't get too worked up about it, especially for the little ones. They're not at risk of sexual assault like they would be in a secondary school or in a bathroom shared with adults. As long as cubicles are private, they're reasonable.

Why can't it be single sex/gender? I'm missing something?

most haven't hit puberty until secondary,

I don't know about this. When I was at junior school we all got changed in the same classroom, but there were girls and boys toilets. There was an unwritten policy that as girls started to feel uncomfortable taking our tops off in front of the boys, we could slip off and get changed in the girls' toilet. I remember vividly not really understanding why some girls were dong this until midway through year 6 when I became grateful to have the option. Also a few girls had already started their periods by year 6 .

At my school, the girls and then all children (boys & girls) in nursery, reception and year 1&2 shared toilets as they were closest to the year 1&2 classrooms.
Then boys had their own separate toilets from year 3-6.
I think the issue is if there are older boys in year 6 sharing toilets with reception children in my experience. It's extremely odd that this wasn't brought up with parents beforehand though???

Ks1 - fine.

Ks2 - should be single sex. Girls in Y4, 5, 6 starting puberty need girl-only spaces.

There is very clear laws on toilets so depending on their age you maybe able to use the guidance linked below.

You also need to be clear how the toilet(s) is set up a fully enclosed toilet or cubicles. Mixed sex must be fully enclosed with hand washing facilities not cubicles.

By law there can be no children with a gender recognition certificate so no child can legally change sex so effectively that should not be an issue.

There's information here womansplaceuk.org/2018/11/12/mixed-sex-toilets-ins-chools/

I believe they legally have to provide single sex from y3 upwards.

The knowledgeable people on the Feminism: Sex and Gender board will be able to tell you chapter and verse on this and signpost you to guidance, template letters to send etc.

I wouldn't be happy about that at all. I could perhaps accept it if each cubicle was completely private with no space to look over or under around the sides or the door. Girls age 8+ are starting periods, some boys are probably seeing secondary sexual characteristics change. Children are silly and things like peering into another cubicle as a group of girls to a boy or a group of boys to a girl would probably happen. It's awful to think that a child might have their privacy compromised when also trying to handle periods/body changes etc.

Ours were mixed sex in primary back in the 1980s and DS’s school are all mixed sex - I didn’t realise any primary schools had single sex toilets! Why would you, they are usually individual cubicles anyway.

In Reception there were two self-contained toilet cubicles just off the actual classroom (like a disabled toilet). Now in KS1 there are 2-3 self contained cubicles in the corridor between the four classrooms. All open straight out onto the corridor. It would be totally ridiculous to have some labelled “boys” and some labelled “girls”.

@Changechangychange In Infants they can be mixed sex. In juniors they are required to be single sex or fully floor to ceiling cubicles with handwashing facilities. The link @Sickoffamilydrama provided explains things well.

most haven't hit puberty until secondary

I could name four girls in DD's class who started periods in year 5 or 6. And I assume there were more, as those were just the ones she knew about.

Why make life any harder for girls already going through puberty that bit younger than the average?

Oh, ours are all self-contained (floor to ceiling with hand washing facilities, opening directly onto the corridor). Also means that children with medical or SEN needs can be assisted in privacy.

I assumed that would be standard, unless you are in an old Victorian building or something. DS’s school was built in the 70s.

Not acceptable. Not even legal. I think there's some good template letters circulating now for you to send. Girls need single sex, and by that I mean their actual sex, not the one they identify as.
This has been a very costly mistake for all those companies/corporations who failed to ask for womens opinions on this/or even consider for a moment what they need and why.

What you describe sound legal in that they are fully contained but at my DD old school they had a bathroom with a few cubicles each with a toilet in and with sinks in the room but outside of the toilets. They were separated by sex and must be by law when they get to a certain age.

It’s not legal.

Oh that's fine.

An awful lot of schools however seem to go to mixed sex toilets (aka gender neutral) by changing the sign on a door, and still having cubicles with gaps at top and bottom, and shared handwash facilities.

Fine if self contained. Not fine if not.
it’s been a while, but DC’s primary was single sex.

It's statistically true that most children haven't started puberty until secondary school, but only because boys start puberty later. The average age of onset of puberty is just under 11 years in girls, so most girls will have started puberty before they leave primary school. Around 12% - 15% will have started periods, so 2-3 girls in an average class.

Isn’t that illegal I think? Ask safe schools alliance for advice (and maybe also nspcc who have great guidelines on eg single sex changing at school), but I’m pretty sure schoolchildren are legally entitled to single sex toilets.

Get facts sorted then write to head / governors / Ofsted. It’s not ok. Tell the head that the parents are furious and that this will definitely come up in the Ofsted parent questionnaire at inspection time.

Boys wee all over the seat and do not clear it up. Girls sit on the seat. Many girls start their period at primary school, some at age 9, and they have a right to wash the blood off their hands without boys staring at it.

Ugh some people are so naive about how girls get treated by boys.

And what about male visitors to the school? When I’ve volunteered at school I was told to use the little girls loo. Are adult men going to be sent into the same toilet as little girls? If so I’m sure the local paedo community will have plenty of volunteers 😭

How does self-contained floor to ceiling doors work with four year olds who lock themselves in and won’t/ can’t come out? Or special needs kids who get stuck in there? Or children who get ill and faint? Toilets were designed with a gap under the door for safety reasons, it’s not decorative.

Why should the original safety design be made less safe to indulge the desire of some males to intrude into female soaces where they aren’t welcome?

Ugggh I'd be writing to complain about this.

They should be providing single sex toilets.

Even young girls can feel very uncomfortable going to the toilet around boys whether they've hit puberty or not.

It's almost as if we are trying to teach our youngest girls that they don't need to have boundaries.