To be upset that toilets at primary school turned mixed sex without being told

[Whatonearthisgoingonhere]

Aibu to be a bit upset and discombobulated to have learnt that the toilets at my child's primary school have been mixed sex for some time now. This seems like a significant change to have happened without consulting or letting parents know. Is there anything I can do about this? Do I just need to get over it and accept that this is the world now? My child has said they much prefer the way it used to be.

Has anyone challenged this with any success?

I'm not sure I would see it as an issue. My friends and I always used the opposite sex toilets on purpose at primary school, to challenge the idea that we should be sex-segregated.

I'm surprised you were told to use the little girls loo! When I volunteered (with DBS) I was told I must only ever use the staff toilets. In fact when my then 3 year old really needed the loo at pick-up school said she could but had to use the staff toilets.

97% of women age 18-24 have been sexually harassed / assaulted. We should be teaching little girls to have strong boundaries, and be careful about going with males into spaces where females are vulnerable, not forcing girls to pull down their knickers with boys laughing about it on the other side of the door.

Small children are not the best judges of what's a good idea, or a safe system, or most dignified for others.

That's not your fault as a child; it would be a shame if children were blamed for their immaturity. It's the job of adults to keep them safe.

Safe Schools Alliance has some relevant resources. E.g. a fact sheet here
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/#Single_Sex_Toilets_and_Changing_Facilities_factsheet

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/schools-resources-and-policies/

There has always been mixed sex toilets at my kids school - ks1 3 cubicles directly off the classrooms with a row of sinks and ks2 individual cubicles with hand washing facilities inside. I've got no problem with that at all.

That is fine if the KS2 ones are floor to ceiling, but often schools are converting toilets by relabelling them without making cubicles floor to ceiling and including handwashing.

Thank you for the links and helpful comments on this

Discombobulated. Love that word.

Some children, girls or boys, may have fears about using toilets other than at home. Parents should have been made aware in case this fear resurrected itself or is made worse.

Even if legal, which I have some doubts on.

I hate this untrue message that girls won't hit puberty until high school so there's no need to even think about it. My PS took this attitude and there were no disposal bins for sanitary pads and no accommodations. I had my period and a bra in year 5 (Australia but I think that's primary school in most places). This is not so uncommon and needs to be taken seriously. Treating young girls in the most vulnerable stage of their lives as though they're an inconvenience, are doing something wrong by developing or should just be more like boys is awful. Late primary school should be setting the stage for testing girls respectfully by having separate toilets, changing areas and accommodating all period needs early. Separate bathrooms needs to be no later than year 3 so they girls can mature into bras and periods with privacy and dignity. It's an awful thought that young girls could be embarrassed by their own development because they have no privacy.

Whatonearthisgoingonhere -- Here's a very recent thread from the Feminism board which may be useful.

The OP has put her own inquiry/complaint letter in the first post, with references to the specific laws that come into play and questions regarding the reasons for the change and what risk assessments were done, and offers its use as template or starting point for anyone who needs it: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4628218-they-have-turned-the-toilets-at-my-daughters-school-mixed-sex

You can get toilets with locks that can be opened from the outside quite easily if you know how to. They manage it on hospital wards, care homes, etc.

In what way is it sheer wokery?

DC school with the toilets in the cloakrooms are self-contained cubicles with handwashing facilities inside. It's a relatively new build (c. 15yrs old) and open plan in design. The children are aged 9 and to 13.

DC who go to the older-built school are aged 3 to 9. EYFS (age 3 to 5) are in a newer built, separate unit. The toilets in there are small sized and are mixed sex as is typical for that age. The rest of the school use the mixed sex toilets at either end of the school as described in my post. The toilets have floor to ceiling doors. There is a self-contained accessible toilet available next to the office too. Weirdly no one has raised any issues about this set up.

@FarmerRefuted No one has objected because what you have described is fine and legal.

She 'sheer wokery' comes about when schools rebadge facilities which do not meet those standards because Stonewall or a similar organisation has said they should in order to be kind to a child who has been told it's OK for gender to override sex based safeguarding.

It must be horrible to not know what toilet to use if you are transgender

FFS

What would work well is to have a male toilet, female toilet and then mixed toilet. That way everyone is catered for

Surely all children are entitled to the same levels of safeguarding?

Why are some not worthy of the same safety privacy and dignity the single aex facilities offer?

All children have a sex. Whether they like it or not.

Wht are adults so keen.to remove boundaries. Who benefits?

I was a very active feminist at primary school age and against the view that boys and girls are different due to their sex.
I was also very angry when adults tried to force me into the boys' toilets because I had shirt hair and wore trousers or tried to force my brothers into girls' toilets when they had long hair. So we and our friends decided to break down the divide by using whichever toilets we felt like using.
I would have been angry also at the gender essentialism expressed by some trans views (George in Famous Five was very wrong for thinking she had to be a bit if she liked doing cool stuff!) and soperhaps, had that issue been widespread then, would have reverted to backing sex-based toilets. Things have changed now and I can see that emphasising biological difference while calling out gender stereotypes or faux science claiming innate character differences etc. might be a priority.
I'm not sure that teaching children to hide from the opposite sex is the way forward though. Wouldn't it be better if males were aware of periods and the like from an early age? My sons certainly are as they've seen them and I've explained them to them since they were three.

But that's down to parents ams teachers. Not 8 and 9 year old girls trying desperately to get to grips with it themselves to teach boys by osmosis at the cost of their private spaces.

Yanbu. It's the future unfortunately. 😔

Most girls will start the first stages of puberty during key stage 2.
Several girls will begin their periods before they finish primary school. This is not uncommon and well within the norm. At least 1/3 of the girls in DD's primary school class began their periods by the end of yea 6, some early. Almost all had started puberty and were showing physical signs of puberty, a number from year 3 onwards.

Key stage 1 - I'd have no issues generally with single sex changing and toilets.

Key stage 2 - I am very much if the opinion that changing for people should be single sex, or at a minimum a private space for those not happy to change in front of the opposite sec. And toilets should have single sex provision too, along with bins for sanitary protection, etc.

There's literally no problem here...

Sex and gender are different. Which do you mean?

This is going against Health and Safety, Building Regulations, and the specific rules for schools, OP. So, no, YANBU, the school is well out of order.