To think that people should consider paying for MH services?

[DoodlePug]

First of all, of course I think it is wrong that you can not access services on the NHS.

Secondly, yes I know there is a cost of living crisis and people have even less spare money than they used to.

However, we are where we are and I feel some people don't prioritise their mental health as much as their physical health. I know plenty of people who pay for private physio which they should be able to access on the NHS, and for hip/knee operations because the list is too long yet the same people are waiting months/years for assessment and treatment for MH conditions which invariably get worse.

Obviously if you can't pay you can't pay, but is 2 weeks in the sun really better for your health than 20 counselling sessions which could well help to alleviate your anxiety/depression?

If someone is choosing between treatment for their elbow and their anxiety why does the elbow always win?

Is it just a societal thing? Do we not value our MH as much as our physical health? Or is there still a stigma and you feel good for seeing a physio but bad for seeing a counsellor?

Genuinely perplexed why people who could afford it and have shown an inclination to spend on private physical care won't do the same when it's mental care. Would love to hear your thoughts.

And if anyone is looking for a counsellor the bacp register is a good place to start.

It sounds like you're kissed off with one person & are extrapolating.

Are you ignorant? Are you fucking ignorant?! Thing is @DoodlePug I could rip you a new one here by telling you about my own experience (with my DD) but I'm hoping you are a troll and therefore would have a right good wank over knowing the details of our family's despair. So I've reported. If you're not a troll then your stupidity is a prime example of why MH still carries such a stigma despite all these stupid "its good to talk" campaigns. Our kids and young people are killing themselves and you suggest they should pull themselves together and pay for it? Please let this be a troll.

Bloody phone!! PISSED, not kissed!!

You're ignorant as to what is involved in counselling, the long term costs being unaffordable for many.

You're extrapolating based on your own personal experiences. The plural of anecdote is not data.

I’ve been on waiting lists for several private childrens mh services for over a year. Others haven’t got open waiting lists because they’re overwhelmed since lockdown.

Its not patients that don’t prioritise MH services ime

I'm sorry @HangerLaneGyratorySystem

Fwiw I agree with you.

When I was at my most unwell I couldn't afford private counselling. The private counselling I get now is paid for by my work.

I don't discuss any of my health issues with people whether they be physical or mental.

It depends what you mean by mental health, I can't imagine somebody suffering with psychosis for example and being detained under the Mental health act ,wanting to pay for their treatment
Most people don't really have any idea about treatment and facilities for those suffering with severe and enduring mental illness.

Agree wholeheartedly with first post.

Furthermore, people with mh conditions often suffer financially because earning power takes a massive hit. The effect is compounded if mh conditions are worsened by financial troubles in the first place.

Of all the lets-start-paying for health treatment suggestions I've seen, this is the most poorly thought out (sorry).

I think that if we have a National Health Service, it should be for for purpose and service people's health regardless of their means.

I haven't read all the replies so might be repeating things.

One of the big reasons people I know don't pay for MH support is because a LARGE amount of what's offered is shit to the point of actually making things worse rather than better. This is especially the case if you have a more 'complex' situation in that you're neurodivergent or have overlapping conditions or very complex PTSD (often the very people who are in the greatest need of accessing good quality support).

In my job I have genuinely seen a lot of cases where poorly trained therapists, counsellors, or psychologists have made the mental health of a service user worse with their input because they don't understand e.g. autism. It is incredibly difficult to find out ahead of time whether these 'professionals' are good, as well. The ones who do have a reputation for being genuinely helpful tend to cost mega money or have waiting lists that are years long or both.

So, people are forced to choose between paying money (that they often can't really afford) for something that might actually make their situation even worse, or just existing a they are and hoping for a miracle.

I meant "fit for purpose"

I agree. I worked for MIND but had to leave due to the sheer amount of people who expected something for nothing and never truly wanted to put in the effort that recovery actually takes. People want a quick fix, a magic pill, or a permanent solution and MH just isn’t like that. I know people who moan and moan about not being able to access counselling on the NHS but then they think nothing of getting Botox and other non essential items, when one session a week paid privately could really help them.

You need to watch the panorama documentary from last Wednesday and gain a little understanding of the circumstances of those suffering with long term severe mental illness and think again wether people should pay for treatment ,quite apart from the shocking treatment they suffered from the staff ,( I used to work for that trust and it shocked me to the core )

Yeah you seem the type to have worked for MIND actually. Useless organisation.

@Dalaidramailama sounds like the sort of staff actually featured in the Panorama documentary last week @x2boys - total contempt for sufferers. You see that's the thing with threads like this, it draws people with contemptible beliefs out of the woodwork, they think "ooo, someone like ME" and pile on. I can see a few on here already.

@DismantledKing

100 percent agree. A load of shite. You also sound like someone who went to them and expected a quick fix but there you go, glad to be shot of it all to be honest. It’s a rare individual these days who wants to take responsibility for their own MH recovery.

No, I’ve never approached them for any help. The fact that someone like you worked for them with your attitudes justify that decision. There’s far too many people like you involved in MH treatment. People that should never be near anyone that’s vulnerable.

Exactly. They get drawn to MH care because of the power it gives them over vulnerable people.

Counselling can be really expensive - DH looked into it when he was going through a bad patch and it was £250 per session round here (South London) - that isn’t affordable in an ongoing basis.

And although therapy should have a defined end (I had twelve sessions for severe PTSD at the Maudsley and it was literally curative), many counsellors, particularly the fluffy “talk about it with a cup of tea” ones, just spin it out forever once they get their claws into people, never letting them go.

That is bad therapy (you should improve and be discharged), but there is a lot of that sort of “counselling” out there.

No wonder so much MH treatment doesn't work when you have those like @Dalaidramailama in the system. This is what some people genuinely believe - this is what William and Kate and Ant and Dec need to be addressing with the "good to talk" campaigns - its akin to racism, yet here we are giving headspace to these opinions, this deep disgust and contempt for mental illness. And I imagine @DoodlePug is sat there laughing at us all. Wind 'em up and let 'em go.

I’m happy to trial two weeks in the sun and report back.

of course YABU. Many people already pay for mental health support, but many can’t afford it, and many will feel much better about life if they have a week in the sun every year.

I agree. There need to be a big clear out amongst NHS mental health staff. Far too many see themselves as prison officers rather than caring for vulnerable people. Far too many with attitudes that we’ve seen on this thread. These people should be working in an office by themselves somewhere, far away from others.

At which point do you want people to start paying and which point do you want them to stop paying?

I have two complex and severe mental health conditions, both are caused by trauma inflicted on me by others - some of it from when I was very, very young.

I have recently been on a S.136 which required several police offers (it was almost 40 hours in A and E for medical clearance), and then a further 8 hours in the 136 suite. This isn't the fault of A and E, it was very busy with an 18 hour wait for a doctor, even though I was prioritised due to the seriousness of my injury, just to see a doctor we wait 14 hours. I was given a space on the floor, a pillow, blanket and a hard plastic chair for those 40 hours.

Then the S2 happened, and now a CTO with twice daily visits, additional social work support etc.

I am already in specialist mental health care as well, though I was lucky in that at that time there was no waiting list.

I can honestly say I have never met a deliberate person who displayed power in a negative way within mental health services; 2 police officers at separate times have been a bit shit though.

I have private health insurance as my partner gets it discounted through work. The level of care I need for mental health support will not, and will never be, supported by private insurance. Most insurance companies have a cut off point, and the premiums are exceptionally high (we pay a % of said premiums). Waiting on wait lists in the NHS can be anxiety provoking and the insurance does, and has helped with this.

Also - there's strong links between physical and mental health, so whilst people invest in their physical health they are also likely making a positive impact to their mental health.

The two things are rarely separate.

My experience is almost the opposite to yours OP. Most people I know have paid for mental health services but have stoutly waited it out on the NHS for any physical ailments.

Also, in my area, you can’t currently get counselling on the NHS. If you’re assessed as needing counselling you get referred to a service called Listening Post. They are cheaper than private counsellors but usually still cost around £20-25 per session. The only difference is there’s a sort of means testing at the start and if you can only afford less that’s what you pay. There is a heavy emphasis though on each session costing THEM £20-ish and that if you can possibly pay this amount you really really should. It’s quite difficult to say you can afford less.

Anyway. That’s the “nhs” counselling in my area. It’s not free. And as it stands, I’ve been waiting a year and a half for an appointment…….despite being under the crisis team.

What I’ve opted for instead is done hypnotherapy. I can only afford it periodically but it helps and I can listen to the recorded sessions again between appointments.

NHS mental services really are in a critical state. If you can’t afford to pay, you are absolutely fucked.