To think two hours homework a night is not excessive for a year 10 pupil

[Challenger5]

DD 1 is adamant that two hours a night homework, is against her human rights. She has been stomping around, refusing to start her homework. DD 1 is being exceptionally rude to me swearing at me for sending her to a prison camp and claiming to be-having a nervous breakdown due to the schools expectations.

I am trying to calm her down and reason with her, that two hours a night is quite proportionate for a year 10 girl at a Grammar School. This especially as the school as stated her target grades are 7-9 in all ten GCSE subjects.

She has also informed me that her head of year as given her a after school detention, today for calling her English teacher a 'mean cow' for a poor homework mark. DD denies calling the teacher that, saying she was misheard when she pulled her face at the teacher.

DD is saying the detention is unfair and against her human rights because it is grossly an excessive punishment even if she had accidentally muttered 'mean cow' when the teacher spoke to her. DD argues that her face pulling was justified because someone has to stand up against the schools unrealistic and unreasonable levels of homework demanded.

@Florenz

Oh FFS who gives a shit what they're doing in another country? COMPLETELY irrelevant!

And FWIW, DD, and me and DH know half a dozen or so youngish (under 35,) Chinese people who said they were worked to DEATH at school, and were told in no uncertain terms by their parents that they WILL be a high achiever, and they WILL do a serious academic subject, nothing in the arts. Only law, science medicine, etc

One woman DD knows right now, has been disowned by her parents for going into theatre and dance, when they wanted her to be a doctor. She works on a show in the west end, and has a successful career as an actress and dancer, yet her parents see her as a failure. THIS is how some cultures are, yet you want THIS for our children? REALLY?!

I think we need to abstain from the way China (and some other countries,) do things! Lumping more study on our kids and pushing and pushing them is only going to achieve resentment and stress and depression in our children. I SERIOUSLY hope you don't want that for your children. I would never want it for mine!

Thats way too much. She's still a child. Where is the time to play, go to clubs, relax with her toys, spend time as a family, go visit family/do fun things on weeknight?
Shes telling you she is over worked and overwhelmed, listen to her.
Kids childhoods are being taken away to get good gcse results and it's so so wrong, give her time to be creative and and be a kid. I didn't even do 2 hours a night at high school... or university! Sounds like absolute torture.

@Ericaequites

Now my DD had no more than 3 or 4 hours homework a week, and she was a very high achiever academically. Top class in everything, top grades in GCSE and A level results, and a great result in University.

If pupils have to be loaded with 10-12 hours or more of 'home study' per week - (on top of around 34-37 hours in class,) then the school, and the teaching standards need to be reviewed.

Knocking on for 50 hours a week of study for a CHILD is a ludicrous amount of school work. As has been said, they are in class some 34-37 hours a week, so with 10-12 hours of homework on top, that's almost a 50 hour week of study. Most adults don't work that many hours in the workplace.

It's ludicrous and obscene, and as I said, suggests that the teaching standards are poor, if they need to lay THAT many hours per week on them! I know some people who have/have had home-schooled children, (now and in the fairly recent past,) and their 'studies' will typically take 20-22 hours a week.

The children are intelligent, articulate, and well-educated, with high grades, and some went on to good universities, and got good results there too. NO CHILD needs 50 hours a week of school study, not if the school is doing their job properly.

2 hours a night sounds pretty standard for that age, & the number of subjects. I'm sure we all did something similar.
Sounds like she also deserved the detention, if her manners & behaviour are as bad as suggested. And, of course, you have to support the school.

Do you know many secondary school kids that play with toys? That's the age we are talking about here.

Neither of mine had 35-37 hours in class (ie actual learning) Lessons covered around 25 hours a week (including PE, PSHE etc). The rest of the time was break, lunch, assemblies, form time etc.

Its about right. Its what my dd is doing (selective independent).

Adequate for what? An "adequate" but boring job that pays badly?

On the one hand I think that any homework is outrageous - they should do a 6 or 7 hour day and that's it.

On the other hand if you want to maximise your options in adulthood (not least with regards finding well paid enjoyable work) then working your backside off to get the best grades possible really helps.

What sort of a lifestyle does the daughter want? If she is happy to work in retail or burger flipping, then rely on finding a decent well paid man so she can afford luxuries like make up and a hair cut and a place to rent that isn;t an HMO, then you might as well pull her from the grammar and tell her not to botherwith homework.

If she has ambition and any sort of fucking clue about what the real world is like then maybe she needs to accept that life is not fair and to sort herself out.

We fetishize childhood too much in this country and as a result end up with adults who can't cope with the responsibilities of adulthood.

She’s full of shit, isn’t she?! In a typically Y10 way.
Seems a lot of homework, but chinny reckon she didn’t call the teacher a mean cow.

On the other hand if you want to maximise your options in adulthood (not least with regards finding well paid enjoyable work) then working your backside off to get the best grades possible really helps.

There's a balance though? OP's DD is at a grammar so presumably pretty bright.
If she worked her backside off maybe she would get all Grade 9s.
If she worked at a more relaxed level she would probably still get all Grade 7s and above.

Really the difference in options in adulthood resulting from either of these sets of results is not going to be that much.
If she was doing nothing and not working in class either to the point she was on the verge of failing her GCSEs or just scraping passes, it would be different. But that's really not the scenario here.

My DD has just finished GCSES. She was at a bog standard comp that didn't set that much homework. She worked at a level that she thought was appropriate to enable her to get good grades (which in some weeks meant very little; just before tests meant a lot more; and when she had to submit her art and drama portfolios she pretty much only stopped to eat and sleep).

And to all of those saying their child did well without working long hours,
Well bully for them. It didnt come naturally for me so i worked really hard. Got really good grades. Went to a good university and worked really hard and am now pretty well paid. And before children when i had a more stressful job i was exceptionally well paid. I don't work so hard now but have a pretty nice life.

My dd wants to be a vet. Its competitve. So she is working really hard so she gets to do what she wants to do in her life. We all have choices and children that are in a grammar school have lots of options. Its their choice which one to take.

The gap in attainment between those in the poorest parts of the country and the wealthiest is larger than ever, if we are going to close that gap there does need to be some realistic notion of studying for educational attainment but more importantly knowing how to apply that learning and knowledge in a young person's future life. That passion and ability cannot be acquired solely in the classroom or rigidly prescribed only for 'A' levels +. My year 11 wants to revise, is interested in his English literature texts for example and it is not an endurance test for him, like it wasn't for me.

Wow 2 hours of homework for a 10 year old, that's huge and way too much IMO. Here in Ireland a 10 year old child would still only be in 4th class so I'm confused when you talk about the start of the GCSE's already?

It's crazy the difference between the educational systems in the UK and Ireland when we are neighboring countries. I also don't have a clue what a grammar school is or how it's different from a normal school because we don't have them here.

Two hours of homework is alot of pressure for a little 10 year old child, they are supposed to be having fun, enjoying their childhood and doing extra curricular activities and playing sports!.

2 hours homework a week is too much. What about time to do sports? Music? Other interests?

calling any teacher a cow, however quietly, deserves detention and banging on about human rights would make me want to shoot her.

I agree with your DD.
One of my DDs had similar complaints as her teachers were assigning busy work which felt was useless as she already “got” the material and didn’t need to do 30 maths problems plus write essay after essay to prove it.

In fact she did her GCSE English speech with the title “Abolish All Homework” based on a study of the U.K. vs Finland Education systems.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-37716005
opinion.inquirer.net/154480/change-our-educational-system-to-the-finland-way

@fdkc its year 10, so age 14/15

@sheepdogdelight you couldn't be more wrong for the very competitive courses. There is a big difference between all 7's and all 9's - particularly for children with the privilege of attending a grammar school. So many children get a full sweep of top grades now.

I'm a lawyer and was asked about my GCSE grades at an interview when 4 years qualified (after a levels, a degree, professional exams, post graduate study and 6 years working in role). I got the job.

Ten year olds definitely still play with toys.

Year 10 are 14/15 year olds.

What competitive courses are you talking about? I'm aware that GCSEs are important for things like medicine - but that's not something the majority of students are interested in.
And, if you meant university courses, then university is not really "options in adulthood" - yes I know students are adults, but the comment was made in reference to long term adult options, money earned etc.

I've never been asked about my GCSE grades once I was past my first job, and you have no idea whether they influenced the decision to employ you or not. And anecdotes don't prove anything anyway.

I'd be surprised if there are many people who think their path as an adult would have been significantly changed if they'd got "absolutely top GCSE grades" as opposed to just "very good GCSE grades"

The OP is talking about Year Ten students

I'm not a big supporter of more than minimal homework. Yes, home study skills are important to learn for those academically minded, but wouldn't you all be complaining if your job expected two hours of additional work every evening?
What about the evenings with sport commitments? What about HEAVEN FORBID a social life?

University is very much an option in adulthood and not one available to you if your attainment at GCSE level is poor. If we are referring to highly competitive courses and jobs, then how do we achieve the levelling up if not via education. An educated society is always going to better than one that doesn't question or enquire, that is pretty self evident and no one is referring to extremes. We need people that are interested in acquiring knowledge, not just doing the minimum to pass exams. If you have a child who seeks that intellectual stimulation and doesn't see it as a hardship then it should be supported IMO.

Education isn't a job though and that perception has ruined the desire for knowledge in this country.

My DS plays football at the park straight after school, he went to a house party on Saturday night, his social life is fine. Arguably, life isn't just about social life and having a good time.