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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think when people say 'Should of' instead of 'Should HAVE' - it makes them look incredibly thick

204 replies

Vajizzle · 03/10/2022 11:08

Honestly I do not understand how people can continue making this mistake

I know people who are very clever and have professional jobs, that continue to do this

It makes me fkin scream inside

OP posts:
Rolop · 03/10/2022 14:26

@sóh₂wl̥ interestint to see someone else in the same boat! I read a lot but still can't get my head around spellings and grammar when it comes to my own writing.

averageavocado · 03/10/2022 14:35

Really? does it really matter?

Makes you look like a twat to be so bothered about it

All language evolves - examples

Napron
Like many words having to do with cooking and kitchens (cuisine is a prime example), apron came to English from French. In this case, however, the sound of the word once it was used in English caused confusion. The word for a cloth covering in Middle French was naperon, which came from nape, meaning “tablecloth.” (In modern French, a tablecloth is called a nappe.) Naperon came into English in the 14th century, but referring to it in English as “a napron” led to some people spelling the term as “an apron” instead. The rest is messy history.

Ingot
An ingot is a bricklike solid mass of metal or the mold used to create such a casting. The shape is for ease of transport and regulating the size and weight of valuable metals, and this shape is also probably the reason for its name in its language of origin, French, lingot, derived from the Latin word for tongue, lingua (the same root as the English word language). Some English writers, knowing that le and la in French are abbreviated before vowels with an apostrophe as L’, chopped off the initial letter and ended up with ingot. These writers were too smart by half; they seemed to discount the fact that French also has words that just plain old start with the letter L. The original spelling lingot is preserved in dictionaries, but now it gets the label archaic.

Notch
The Middle French word oche meant “an incision made to keep a record,” but when the word migrated into English in the 16th century, the English indefinite article an got in the mix. “An oche” became respelled as “a notch,” used to mean “an indentation,” “a gap,” or “a degree.”

Nickname
The Middle English word eke meant “also” or “in addition,” and a secondary or unofficial name in the late Middle Ages was an ekename—literally, an “also-name.” Both words are labeled archaic in our dictionary today, because a newer word came on the scene that supplanted this compound noun: nickname. It would seem that nickname is also a compound noun, but nick is not a word that means “also,” or anything else for that matter: nickname was formed by the incorrect division of “an ekename” into “a nickname.”

Umpire
It’s ironic that the word for a person who literally calls balls and strikes is called by a name created by a linguistic foul. The original word in English was noumpere, which was a borrowing of the French term nompere. The -pere of nompere was the French word for “equal,” a descendant of the Latin word par (“equal”) that is the root of words like peer, pair, and, of course, par. Noumpere became the form used in English for “one without equal” or “peerless,” but frequent references to “a noumpere” ended up becoming references to “an oumpere,” which became the modern word umpire.

Orange
Nothing could seem more self-evident than an orange. It is, after all, a fruit that named its own color. And yet our name for it, orange, comes from an example of spoiled spelling. The original word in Arabic was nāranj, and it passed into French through the Romance language Old Occitan, which spelled the word auranja, which ultimately became orange in modern French. The n vanished because the indefinite articles in French un and une end with an \n\ sound, and the word was respelled accordingly, dropping the initial n. It’s notable that this respelling didn’t happen the same way in Spanish, which spells orange as naranja.

Aught
The noun aught means “zero,” or, when used in the plural as “the aughts,” a way of referring to the decade between 2000 and 2009. It originally meant “nothing,” and derives from another word that means “nothing”: naught. Naught comes from Old English and the false division created by the phonetic resemblance between “a naught” and “an aught” is to blame for the existence of two such otherwise similar words.

Newt
It may come as a surprise to learn that the name of the small amphibian known as the newt—short as it is—is too long. The creature was originally known as the ewt, a word that derived from a now-obsolete word meaning “lizard,” eft (which today refers to the terrestrial phase of a predominantly aquatic newt). But false division resulted in an extra letter being added, when “an ewt” over time became “a newt.”

Adder
Misdivisions of words that begin with the letter n are the most frequent because, in speech, it is difficult to distinguish between a sequence of the indefinite article “a” followed by a word beginning with an [n] (ex “a name”) and a sequence of the indefinite article “an” followed by a word beginning with a vowel (ex. “an aim”). This make the position of the n very easily confused.
Yet another example is the name of the venomous snake known as the adder. The Old English word for this viper was nǣdre, which became nadder in Middle English. Over time, a nadder became an adder. The Oxford English Dictionary records that by the mid-1400s, the word was being spelled both with and without the n, but since about 1500, the n-less spelling has prevailed.

www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/false-divisions-words-formed-by-mistake

LetMeSpeak · 03/10/2022 14:38

He s “should’ve” sounds extremely similar to “should of”. How do you know they are saying which?

Also many people are have come from completely different backgrounds I think you should really take that into account when judging people on their grammar.

saraclara · 03/10/2022 14:40

The OP said 'it makes them LOOK thick', not that they are thick. And I agree.

I think it's an unfortunate error. I can see how it occurs and I can see that there are plenty of bright people who unwittingly make the error. But it does leap out.

I try not to be a snob, but I genuinely think that this is one of the errors that can really hold you back in life/your career. Because it LOOKS as though you're not intelligent, and makes prospective employers assume that you will make many other writing errors.

So yes, I'm not one for grammar policing, but if I was to make such a regular and obvious error, I'd want someone to tell me.

BaileySharp · 03/10/2022 14:41

It really annoys me!

VoiceOfCommonSense · 03/10/2022 14:46

I agree, lots of things annoy me, pacifically bad grammar..

sóh₂wl̥ · 03/10/2022 14:48

I also agree that people who read even a tiny amount should be aware that that “would of” isn’t correct. Unless they just choose to ignore it and treat it like an accepted abbreviation.
I think it's like spelling which was assumed reading to be the best help while I think research found while decoding - ie reading - was one skill
encoding spelling was slightly different skill set and best way to improve spelling was to teach it.

Mis hearing phrases isn't uncommon - Dave Gorman did cat phrases

.

@Rolop - I actually don't think it is uncommon to find reading doesn't help spelling and grammar or it does slightly but not enough.

LikeAStar1994 · 03/10/2022 14:50

Who cares? No, I wouldn't think it makes them sound thick.

You're just a massive snob. Own it.

OhhhhhhhhBiscuits · 03/10/2022 14:53

I couldn't give two shiny shits if people say or write it.

Notanotherwindow · 03/10/2022 14:58

Yeah it does. You'll get flayed alive for saying so but it really does. Same as using His, instead of he's or the wrong form of There/Their/They're.

I'm not generally that hung up on perfect grammar but do try to use the correct word, at least.

lassingd · 03/10/2022 15:01

Personally, I think correcting grammar is a sign of insecurity. If anything it's a sign of the accuser being slightly dim. Obviously highly educated folk couldn't care less, or could.

Violetdreaming · 03/10/2022 15:04

I have a friend who is one of the kindest, most generous and sweetest of souls, also not judgemental at all and is very intelligent. She has quite severe dyslexia which has caused her heartache and challenges in life yet puts herself out there, gets involved and advocates for and supports others. I’m so glad she continues to express herself despite the anxiety it causes her as she has much wisdom to share but it is sad to know that others judge her based on her spelling and grammar. I hope everyone finds a friend like her as I think they would feel different about this issue if so x

Quirrelsotherface · 03/10/2022 15:05

It's taboo to say so on here but I agree. Absolutely thick as mince.

HappyHamsters · 03/10/2022 15:10

VoiceOfCommonSense · 03/10/2022 14:46

I agree, lots of things annoy me, pacifically bad grammar..

😂

KimberleyClark · 03/10/2022 15:16

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 03/10/2022 11:16

Nobody says "should have" though. People say "should've". "Should've" sound close to "should of" than "should have".

Not to me. Should’ve sounds more like shoulduv than should of.

Dontfuckingsaycheese · 03/10/2022 15:34

Anyone who is so pedantic about language and grammar is a snob and has too much time on their hands IMO.

It’s my job 🤗 I’m educating our future ❤️

FourTeaFallOut · 03/10/2022 15:46

Our future what? Emoji users?

PAFMO · 03/10/2022 15:50

Dontfuckingsaycheese · 03/10/2022 15:34

Anyone who is so pedantic about language and grammar is a snob and has too much time on their hands IMO.

It’s my job 🤗 I’m educating our future ❤️

It's my job as well, but when I'm on MN, I'm not at work.

And real language pedants don't get irked because someone else's use of English is inferior, they think "that's really interesting, the fact that in abbreviation and connected speech, a stressed vowel becomes an unstressed schwa, and that leads ultimately to a perfectly correct PRONUNCIATION morphing into an incorrect SPELLING, what should we be doing to rectify that? And will, over time, it become an accepted usage?" (Probably not- but we will lose the first R in February, and the few/lesser distinction)

WatchoRulo · 03/10/2022 15:55

and will, over time, it become an accepted usage?" (Probably not- but we will lose the first R in February, and the few/lesser distinction)
You're right, things are evolving all the time.
I got told off for "hatich" as a child (and not for sectarian reasons) but it's regular now, as is loose for lose - and should of and could of are accepted by large numbers.

AirFryerNinja · 03/10/2022 15:57

I like pea's. Do you like pea's?

sóh₂wl̥ · 03/10/2022 16:59

I personally think there should be more teaching on grammar and spelling not less - people can and do look down on people for not getting it correct (even if I hate that as a dyslexic I've certainly experienced it) - and in formal settings it can count against individuals.

So while I can and do make frequent mistakes - often much worse on here despite proof reading posts - I do aim to get it correct and I'm pleased my teens are at least aware of correct usage.

If things do evolve that way - well that's language - in meantime it's not another hurdle for them to overcome.

Getoff · 03/10/2022 17:15

Even worse is when someone important pronounces nuclear as nucular. This immediately makes you sound like you have an IQ so low you can't tie your own shoelaces. I've heard a US president, and a BBC newsreader do this. The most astonishing was someone presenting a documentary on nuclear power, a person who it transpired is considered a guru in presenting science to the public. They didn't do it just once, they did it several hundred times in the space of an hour. (Well I didn't count, but they did it consistently throughout.)

Magnanimouse · 03/10/2022 17:36

I've never met anyone who actually says "should of" - it's "should've". The error is when someone without sufficient grounding in the use of contractions writes this as "should of" because they don't know better. You could well think I'd said "should of" in casual, contracted speech, but that doesn't mean that I'd ever write it.

Making a deliberate effort to change your accent/speech patterns is hard and - in casual speech - suggests to me a certain degree of snobbery. Most educated people with accents are aware of needing a more formal register for presentations, interviews, etc. and when writing.

As an aside, the part of the north I'm from uses "while" to mean "until", which makes absolutely no grammatical sense. I'll be here while about six o'clock tonight. I've never managed to get rid of that in speech, despite living in the south for so long, but I'd know better than ever to write it.

SarahAndQuack · 03/10/2022 17:51

averageavocado · 03/10/2022 14:35

Really? does it really matter?

Makes you look like a twat to be so bothered about it

All language evolves - examples

Napron
Like many words having to do with cooking and kitchens (cuisine is a prime example), apron came to English from French. In this case, however, the sound of the word once it was used in English caused confusion. The word for a cloth covering in Middle French was naperon, which came from nape, meaning “tablecloth.” (In modern French, a tablecloth is called a nappe.) Naperon came into English in the 14th century, but referring to it in English as “a napron” led to some people spelling the term as “an apron” instead. The rest is messy history.

Ingot
An ingot is a bricklike solid mass of metal or the mold used to create such a casting. The shape is for ease of transport and regulating the size and weight of valuable metals, and this shape is also probably the reason for its name in its language of origin, French, lingot, derived from the Latin word for tongue, lingua (the same root as the English word language). Some English writers, knowing that le and la in French are abbreviated before vowels with an apostrophe as L’, chopped off the initial letter and ended up with ingot. These writers were too smart by half; they seemed to discount the fact that French also has words that just plain old start with the letter L. The original spelling lingot is preserved in dictionaries, but now it gets the label archaic.

Notch
The Middle French word oche meant “an incision made to keep a record,” but when the word migrated into English in the 16th century, the English indefinite article an got in the mix. “An oche” became respelled as “a notch,” used to mean “an indentation,” “a gap,” or “a degree.”

Nickname
The Middle English word eke meant “also” or “in addition,” and a secondary or unofficial name in the late Middle Ages was an ekename—literally, an “also-name.” Both words are labeled archaic in our dictionary today, because a newer word came on the scene that supplanted this compound noun: nickname. It would seem that nickname is also a compound noun, but nick is not a word that means “also,” or anything else for that matter: nickname was formed by the incorrect division of “an ekename” into “a nickname.”

Umpire
It’s ironic that the word for a person who literally calls balls and strikes is called by a name created by a linguistic foul. The original word in English was noumpere, which was a borrowing of the French term nompere. The -pere of nompere was the French word for “equal,” a descendant of the Latin word par (“equal”) that is the root of words like peer, pair, and, of course, par. Noumpere became the form used in English for “one without equal” or “peerless,” but frequent references to “a noumpere” ended up becoming references to “an oumpere,” which became the modern word umpire.

Orange
Nothing could seem more self-evident than an orange. It is, after all, a fruit that named its own color. And yet our name for it, orange, comes from an example of spoiled spelling. The original word in Arabic was nāranj, and it passed into French through the Romance language Old Occitan, which spelled the word auranja, which ultimately became orange in modern French. The n vanished because the indefinite articles in French un and une end with an \n\ sound, and the word was respelled accordingly, dropping the initial n. It’s notable that this respelling didn’t happen the same way in Spanish, which spells orange as naranja.

Aught
The noun aught means “zero,” or, when used in the plural as “the aughts,” a way of referring to the decade between 2000 and 2009. It originally meant “nothing,” and derives from another word that means “nothing”: naught. Naught comes from Old English and the false division created by the phonetic resemblance between “a naught” and “an aught” is to blame for the existence of two such otherwise similar words.

Newt
It may come as a surprise to learn that the name of the small amphibian known as the newt—short as it is—is too long. The creature was originally known as the ewt, a word that derived from a now-obsolete word meaning “lizard,” eft (which today refers to the terrestrial phase of a predominantly aquatic newt). But false division resulted in an extra letter being added, when “an ewt” over time became “a newt.”

Adder
Misdivisions of words that begin with the letter n are the most frequent because, in speech, it is difficult to distinguish between a sequence of the indefinite article “a” followed by a word beginning with an [n] (ex “a name”) and a sequence of the indefinite article “an” followed by a word beginning with a vowel (ex. “an aim”). This make the position of the n very easily confused.
Yet another example is the name of the venomous snake known as the adder. The Old English word for this viper was nǣdre, which became nadder in Middle English. Over time, a nadder became an adder. The Oxford English Dictionary records that by the mid-1400s, the word was being spelled both with and without the n, but since about 1500, the n-less spelling has prevailed.

www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/false-divisions-words-formed-by-mistake

I love these words.

Can't give a tiny flying fuck about should of, though.

bizmum1 · 03/10/2022 17:59

Agree OP. Makes them sound as dumb as a box of rocks. It's basic grammar.

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