You stop contact. And you know she's saying untrue things to bully you so don't believe them. Some might suggest counselling too.

She sounds like a toxic narcissist. Everything she says about you is how she feels about herself. She is projecting her negative feelings/traits/motivations on you.

My mother is very similar.

You are right to think there is no point in talking to her about it. She will never change, because she doesn't want or need to. She only cares about herself.

If you possibly can, cut all contact with her. If not, limit contact to the absolute minimum.

And please, please keep your children away from her. Narcissistic mothers are bad enough, but narcissistic grandmothers are a whole new world of pain and toxicity.

I desperately wanted a mother that loved me and hoped mine would change if I strived to be a "better", more "grateful" daughter. I failed of course, because it is impossible to please this kind of mother.

She remains every bit as bitter and vile as she ever was. Unfortunately, I ended up letting her damage not only me, but my children as well.

Good luck and remember, she is the problem, not you.

You should stop seeing her.

She has bullied you your entire life. When you were younger you had no choice but you do now. You don’t have to tolerate her nasty behaviour. She hasn’t been a mother to you, you owe her nothing. Walk away and don’t look back for your own sake and that of your future dc. You deserve so much more than this.

Stop seeing her. Just that.

I second the PPs who advise you to go no contact with her. Also check out the “stately homes” thread on Mumsnet- it is for the adult children of toxic and narcissistic parents, and you will find lots of support and the reassurance that you are not alone.
You might like to read the book “Toxic Parents” by Susan Forward, too.
This ghastly mother contributes nothing but misery to your life. Narcissists are incapable of change- they cannot even see or accept the problem, everything is always someone else’s fault - so there is no point in having relationship counselling with them.
The only solution is to cut her out or continue to suffer.
I broke contact with mine when I was 33, and never saw her again. Not a single regret and didn’t even attend her funeral.

There is nothing wrong with cutting toxic people from your life even if those people are classed as family.
We are adults and don't need to be bullied especially by our own family members.
Don't go for any more meals out with her or visit or anything else, and don't feel guilty about it.
You're gaining nothing positive from this relationship and we don't have to put up with this sort of behaviour just because it's our mother or 'you only get one mother'.
You will be happier not having her in your life.

Goodness!!! Why oh why do you continue to see this pathetic excuse of a woman?

she is emotionally abusive, toxic and dysfunctional

run run run

She’s toxic, keep your distance.

Mumsnet at it's best. Cutting contact and labelling people Narcissists is hugely damaging.

I would suggest, family counselling and trying to work through some of the issues you/ your DM has. If this doesn't help, reduce contact.

just because she’s your mum doesn’t make her a nice person or someone who should be in your life. If anyone else was treating you like this, or made you feel so bad you’d cut them off. Look at stately homes thread. It’s not you it’s her

I had a mother who was very jealous that I had a nice life. Eg Husband, child, own home and financial security.

She wasn’t insulting like your mother, but would make little snipes at me. I stopped physical visits, but kept the phone calls. Eventually I left it so she would call me (before that I dutifully rang regularly). She only ever wanted to talk about herself and all the wrongs done to her.

I did once have a very frank talk with her. But it didn’t change anything.

Remember, sometimes a person will try to put you down, so that they can feel better about themselves.

She is bitter, jealous and possibly lonely. You have a lovely life and a loving husband. It will sound crazy to you, but you have the power in this relationship. You really do.

It would be very reasonable to cut contact with her, but I understand why it can be difficult. Perhaps see this as a one/two year project. Reduce the number of times you see her. Learn to grey rock her. Learn how set boundaries with her.
”If you call me names, I will leave. Read up on toxic mothers. Try baby steps to disentangle from your mother.

You come across as a really sweet person in your post, so believe in your husband, believe in your self. Treat your mother as a joke. “You won’t believe what’s she’s said now”. You need to move her from in your head as the powerful, all knowing mother she once was in your childhood, to the irrelevant person she is now.

Best of luck

Gotta agree with the "Mumsnet at its best comment" that advice is very damaging. Start limiting contact to weekly or every 10 days, eventually making it every two or three weeks. Control what you discuss with her. I tell my mother nothing about my life, so she has no ammo. We have managed to rub along playing 'family' for decades like this.

@Pd1 I just couldn't not reply to your post.
You have been severely emotionally abused throughout your childhood, and the abuse is continuing to this day.
There is no other way of putting it, and I'm amazed you have survived so well, to be honest.
You did nothing wrong and did not deserve to be treated that way, please believe that.
Someone has suggested family counselling.
That's one possible course of action, but I doubt that your mother would agree, or else she would refuse to take any responsibility for her behaviour.
Her issues are hers, not yours. You owe her nothing.
I personally would have no contact, and get some well-deserved counselling/therapy for yourself if you feel it may help you.
Going no contact is drastic, I know, and you may feel you can't. But the contact you are having now is doing you no good at all, and you would have nothing to feel guilty about.

Her issues are hers, not yours. You owe her nothing.

Now that is bleak.

A good therapist may help this relationship. OP doesn't owe her DM anything, but surely repairing one of the most important relationships, in our lives is worth some thought.

I am sorry you have had a difficult time OP. Please reach out to get some help with this, it is really difficult to try to work this out by yourself.

It’s horrible op the person who we should be able to trust we can’t

I limit my contact with my mum and I tell her very very little and nothing about my relationships no matter what the relationship is. She will always underhandedly try to knock my confidence and then started with ds that’s when I knew someone had to change

i would like to cut contact with her but I can’t deal with the guilt I know I shall feel I don’t want all that negative emotion this is the best I can do and it’s worked

First thing is accepting your mum isn’t on your side, it’s very painful but for me I felt until I could truly do that I would make excuses for her and I was stuck in a cycle

you may be able to completely cut contact and that’s great if not think of how you can manage the situation (you can create boundaries around yourself) and it comes easier with time

I'm sorry, but no amount of therapy or counselling (even in the extremely unlikely event of them agreeing to participate) can do any good when you have a toxic and/or narcissistic mother.

I suspect the contributors suggesting this as a potential solution are fortunate enough to have normal, loving mothers. Society doesn't like to admit that some mothers are bad.

Few people would suggest counselling or therapy to "mend" an abusive relationship with a spouse or partner. Abusive mothers are just as bad and the psychological damage inflicted by the one person in life you should be able to trust above all others can be worse than that inflicted by an abusive spouse or partner.

Hi @Pd1

You’re thread was just sent to me by a fellow mnetter as frankly it could have been written by me. I haven’t been on MN for 2.5yrs but I couldn’t not respond to you. Everything you have written, I experienced too “i love you but I don’t like you” is my mothers stock phrase.

What struck me most is how I looked at the responses you have received here for validation for myself. After lockdown had created distance/low contact between my mum and I, I tried to assert boundaries that if she spoke ill of me anymore; I wouldnt engage. And I havent.

The result was that my mum cut me off completely and started a smear campaign with anyone who would listen. Going no contact with your own mother is exceptionally painful, especially where your own “issues” originate in the fear that you would have been left or abandoned. It’s as though all of your worst nightmares have come to fruition.

I’m not going to tell you to go no contact because even though I’m there, I wasn’t ready for it. Therapy has helped massively. Please please if you can, arrange counselling because a good therapist will enable you to process all of those feelings and support you in using techniques like grey rock, low contact or being stonewalled etc and eventually no contact if you want it.

I would also recommend the podcast Insight run by Helen Villers and Katie Mckenna (both are on tiktok and insta) but their content specialises in exactly this topic and it is hugely validating to hear others experiencing the same and know that you are not at fault here. You deserve to be loved and nurtured by a parent even into adulthood.

Just to say that what I HAVE learned from that podcast and therapy is that it doesnt matter about the label of “narcissist” or “toxic” - that the behaviour is enough. You don't have to tolerate it.

I just wanted you to know that I saw this, felt huge compassion for what you are experiencing and that the conflicting emotions are far greater than simply “going no contact” because it is terrifying in reality. Therapy will change your life I promise you. Good luck❤️

You need therapy to try and undo all the damage that your mother has done. She is bullying you, and has been doing so for your whole life.

Also you should dramatically reduce the amount of time that you spend with her.

To the naive posters suggesting relationship counselling with your mother - this is NEVER recommended with an abuser, and will only make matters worse as the toxic narcissist attempts to manipulate the therapist and is incapable of even accepting responsibility, let alone changing their behaviour.
Separate, individual counselling for you may be useful in helping you to undo the damage and gain strength to split with your mother.

Go NC that’s the only way to deal with toxic families.

She sounds awful OP. For someone to treat her own daughter like that I feel she must be a deeply unhappy person. I wonder how her own upbringing was. I can really imagine what a devastating impact her words have had on you throughout your life. I think it's quite hard to cut all contact but I would definitely try to dramatically reduce contact. I'd also make it very clear to her that her remarks are pathetic, cruel and unnecessary. Pretend they dont affect you. Don't argue with her. If she says you are/were a cow or a bitch just breezily turn it back to her and say "Oh yes, that's a typical remark from you, isn't it mum?". Always turn the remark away from you and back to her. She won't change but she needs to believe that her words have lost all power to affect you.

this is NEVER recommended with an abuser, and will only make matters worse as the toxic narcissist attempts to manipulate the therapist and is

Armchair diagnoses again.

It is clear OP's DM, is indeed abusive but is she aware that her use of language is causing you distress? Is she a poor communicator?

Did she mean when she said "Can I wear your dress on my wedding day?" A compliment as to how lovely your choice of dress is or an attempt to make the day about her?

She may well be awful, but labelling her as a demon/ narcissist with no redeeming qualities is not healthy either( not you OP but other posters).

I couldn’t agree more with you. No amount of counselling would help OP’s mother to stop being toxic. Non contact or minimal contact is your only option. Those suggesting counselling dont have narc parents!

'I think I’m definitely going to seek some individual counselling as I need to find a way of undoing all the damage'

Very good plan. I have narc parents and they are still in my life, although very much on my terms and not theirs. I am in touch with them a lot less than I used to be, and I don't share anything personal or emotional with them, because I can't trust them to be decent about it. So no contact is not the only way forward, even though I know it is absolutely the right answer for some

I was in therapy for several years and it was by far the best thing I have ever done for myself. You can find a properly licenced therapist through BACP - highly recommend psychodynamic psychotherapy, which focuses on helping you to understand what you experienced in childhood as a way of making sense of your feelings today, and developing healthier coping strategies. Good luck