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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Nurses taking Strike Action

456 replies

shmiz · 01/10/2022 08:45

AIBU to believe the public will be supportive of Nurses taking Strike Action ?
Nurses are being asked to vote YES to strike action by the biggest nurses union RCN
www.rcn.org.uk/Get-Involved/Campaign-with-us/Fair-Pay-for-Nursing/Latest-updates

OP posts:
Flapjacker48 · 06/10/2022 20:30

@CMZ2018 Yep brill idea! - loads of my colleagues at the hospital have left, several of the younger ones aboard (this is both nurses, Doctors and AHPs). I will be leaving too next year. Good luck when you need the NHS!

Realityloom · 06/10/2022 20:32

Dotjones · 06/10/2022 08:54

I read this morning they START on 27K!!!!! That's way more than what many people earn. I also think their demands are unreasonable because they want above inflation payrises, which will be paid for by people like me who earn less than they do and get payrises that are significantly less than inflation.

Did your parents not tell you to not believe everything you hear?

Honestly is that what you think newly qualified nurses start on 27k? Why don't you Google it before posting this!

Mentalpiece · 06/10/2022 20:33

Yes, I support them every step of the way.
Show me another profession where the staff go through three years of university and treated like dogsbodies while doing placements at the same time.
Then to finally qualify and find yourself being physically and sexually assaulted, threatened, spoken to in a derogatory manner and treated like shit.
That's before you start with the soul destroying shift pattern and hours where work / life balance doesn't exist.
My youngest is one of the many nurses in my family, last year she had her jaw broken by a big bloke simply for apologising for the fact that he had to pay for parking.
Big bloke got off with basically a slap on the wrist. Charge reduced to common assault, fined £140 plus costs!!
They're the backbone of the NHS because without them, there wouldn't be a functional health service. They deserve every penny of their hard earned pay packets.
So yes, I support them fully.

Illybidol · 06/10/2022 20:37

BonnesVacances · 06/10/2022 09:02

I support them. People worrying about healthcare for ONE DAY while the nurses are on strike need to long hard think about what healthcare will be available when the nurses have all left because their working conditions are unacceptable and they've had enough of being walked over by the government and people who abuse them at work.

I couldn’t risk supporting this because I’m terrified that the life limiting Illness my child has which tends to flare up at this time of year will fall on that day. So from a selfish point of view I’m afraid I can’t and wouldn’t support further risk to their life.

TabithaTittlemouse · 06/10/2022 20:38

Mentalpiece · 06/10/2022 20:33

Yes, I support them every step of the way.
Show me another profession where the staff go through three years of university and treated like dogsbodies while doing placements at the same time.
Then to finally qualify and find yourself being physically and sexually assaulted, threatened, spoken to in a derogatory manner and treated like shit.
That's before you start with the soul destroying shift pattern and hours where work / life balance doesn't exist.
My youngest is one of the many nurses in my family, last year she had her jaw broken by a big bloke simply for apologising for the fact that he had to pay for parking.
Big bloke got off with basically a slap on the wrist. Charge reduced to common assault, fined £140 plus costs!!
They're the backbone of the NHS because without them, there wouldn't be a functional health service. They deserve every penny of their hard earned pay packets.
So yes, I support them fully.

I experienced a violent attack at work. No charges were made basically because I’m a nurse. They say that they have a zero tolerance policy to aggression and violence but in reality it’s not true.

I hope your dd got support.

Gherkingreen · 06/10/2022 20:38

Many people working in health and social care earn much, much less than the £27k that's mentioned above. These people are helping patients, preserving dignity, literally saving lives.
Paying nurses more will absolutely increase recruitment and retention right across health services, which will ultimately help provide patients with the care they need to keep them safe.
Strike days will be carefully managed to make sure patients are safe.
More nurses equals better health outcomes for people, period. More nurses will improve working conditions, absolutely.
This and previous governments have refused to enter into conversations about increasing pay for nurses, they take them for granted they presume they won't strike. I think they're wrong.
When you see a picket line in the coming months, please support those on it. Show nurses you support them and you want them to be fairly paid, safe and supported at work, able to pay their bills and mentally and physically well to look after you when you most need it.

CMZ2018 · 06/10/2022 20:41

Flapjacker48 · 06/10/2022 20:30

@CMZ2018 Yep brill idea! - loads of my colleagues at the hospital have left, several of the younger ones aboard (this is both nurses, Doctors and AHPs). I will be leaving too next year. Good luck when you need the NHS!

All the best in your retirement/change

FlippertyGibberts · 06/10/2022 20:43

I support them.

Mentalpiece · 06/10/2022 20:45

@TabithaTittlemouse Thank you. I'm sorry it happened to you too, and the many others it's happened to.
Her colleagues were very good, her managers not so much, but that's nothing new really I suppose.

CherryGenoa · 06/10/2022 20:48

I totally support them striking. Clapping on our doorsteps was just the first baby step to appreciating and respecting people in the profession. Now let’s raise pay to the level that’s properly in line with their training, experience and knowledge.

LakieLady · 06/10/2022 20:54

prescribingmum · 06/10/2022 20:04

I can't work out whether posters like this are ignorant or just plain stupid.

A HUGE portion of the nursing workforce has left for other jobs and, surprisingly enough, no one wants to replace them. Perhaps try engage your tiny brain to work out what happens when there aren't enough nurses to staff a hospital ward/clinicHmm

Over the last couple of years, I've known 3 nurses leave nursing to become assessors for PIP.

They start on £42k and that goes up to £46k after a year if they meet their targets. They work 9-5, Mon-Fri and don't have to do anything physically demanding. Because of Covid they do most of their assessments over the phone and don't even have to see people much of the time.

Of course, they have to live with their consciences, but I don't blame them for doing it.

CactusFlowers · 06/10/2022 20:55

I will support them.

Decent pay and conditions are not much to ask for.

whataballbag · 06/10/2022 20:57

Any NHS staff in unison, make sure your details are up to date.

Ballots are being sent out on 27th October and need to be returned by 25th November.

Ballot helpline is open 1st Nov until 21st Nov - 0800 0 857 857

If you're NOT in a union, if you join unison by 15th Nov, you'll be able to vote in the ballot

Alexandra2001 · 06/10/2022 20:59

@LakieLady

Of course, they have to live with their consciences, but I don't blame them for doing it

Why do they have to "live with their consciences" bizarre thing to say, this is NOT on them... just read the GF's with their "leave or well paid" jibes?

the only ones responsible for the numbers of AHP/HCP's leaving the NHS is this awful Tory government, no one else.

Putonyourshoes · 06/10/2022 21:09

LakieLady · 06/10/2022 20:54

Over the last couple of years, I've known 3 nurses leave nursing to become assessors for PIP.

They start on £42k and that goes up to £46k after a year if they meet their targets. They work 9-5, Mon-Fri and don't have to do anything physically demanding. Because of Covid they do most of their assessments over the phone and don't even have to see people much of the time.

Of course, they have to live with their consciences, but I don't blame them for doing it.

Live with their consciences?!
The people that have nurses leaving the profession on their conscience are the Tories.
I often ask myself why I accept the norm of working a 12.5 hour shift, an hour of that being an unpaid break but never actually taking the break. I ask myself how many other people would put up with that in their jobs? There are very few. We do it because we care, but we are damn sick of being taken advantage of. Other people in other jobs wouldn’t put up with it, they’d leave - and with a clear conscience! So why shouldn’t nurses be able to leave a job that is ruining them, with a clear conscience?

BrianWankum · 06/10/2022 21:34

maiafawnly · 06/10/2022 11:23

@rivermanblows
Why are you doing minimum 48 hours a week as a student? You know that’s not a requirement right? It’s 13 x 12 hr shifts a month, not 16

Lol! Im a student and do 48 hour weeks unpaid in blocks of 6 weeks, 4 times an academic year. We need 2300 hours over 3 years to qualify. 36 hours a month isnt going to get us even close to that. And I can assure you students are working just as hard as the qualified staff. Oh, and ill have £70k of debt by the end of it. Yes. We do it for the love of the job, but that doesn't mean we should be shafted in pay rises. £27000 starting wage take home isn't that great now they increased pension contributions (which isn't worth what it used to be wort either Nhs pensions are no longer great) a lot have found their take home pay has actually reduced not increased following the £1400 uplift.

I did the 2 year PGDip, so 2300 hours in 2 years, and I never had to work more than a 37.5/40 hour week (on average - 13 long shifts every 4 weeks when in placements with that shift pattern), so possibly your uni need to have another look at their placements.

I will be voting yes to strike action.

Tiredmum100 · 06/10/2022 21:35

Backtobed13 · 06/10/2022 11:12

Sorry this is long! Got a bit carried away 🤭

I qualified in 2017 and went straight into community nursing. Starting out, I was nervous but super keen to finally be out there in the field after 3 long years of study and intensive placements. As students, we were often treated as unpaid ward skivvies and bullied by our mentors. Unable to speak up for fear of not having our placement log books and reflections signed off by the mentor. In our theory lessons we had it drummed in to us to advocate for our patients and challenge bad practice, and not be afraid to whistle-blow. Yet in practice this was actively discouraged by ward staff who, if you spoke up as a student, you were seen as a trouble maker and above your station so to speak. So already before qualifying you are demoralised by the toxic culture that is endemic in the NHS. Not a good start. Then you get your first job as a newly qualified and are thrown in at the deep end with no transition period, little support and older, more experienced nurses bullying you almost in an attempt to make you as bitter and jaded as them and have the enthusiasm and passion for nursing beaten out of you. I took a job in district nursing partly to get away from the toxicity on the wards, but I soon realised that no matter the area of nursing, the culture of nurses 'eating their young' is so deeply entrenched that you almost feel you are going through some sort of warped initiation period as a new nurse who has to prove how tough you are. I had more experienced colleagues loading me up with lists of housebound patients to see that were simply unmanageable ; often I had 20 or more patients on my list to see in an 8 hour day. I started having little bumps in the car because I was rushing like a maniac trying to get to everyone. Factor in documentation between patients and travel time, plus needing to go back to the office for any meetings or supplies, it was completely overwhelming. And in all of this having the pressure of never making a mistake and ensuring patient safety and quality of care.
I used to go home and breakdown in tears with sheer exhaustion. I started to become consumed by work and felt sick to my stomach when having to open my laptop of an evening to check my list for the next day. It started impacting on my home life and my health ; to the point that after 2.5 years of this I had what I can only describe as a complete breakdown. I haven't been able to work as a nurse since. I feel I have changed as a person and I look back on my days before entering nursing and realise how bubbly and alive I used to be. Now I am broken. I'm not saying my health problems are completely attributable to nursing, but let's just say it was the predominant catalyst. They took advantage of me as a new nurse , and other newbies, whilst sitting in the office laughing and joking and drinking tea. They didn't even come to support me when I arrived at a patients house to find his dead body on the floor, 3 weeks into starting the job. One of my lovely colleagues who was only a year qualified was the only one to come and she said the office was full of the experienced ones joking around. No one thought to respond.
Now, I am not saying every single nurse is so horrible. Please don't be mistaken. There are some lovely, caring and supportive individuals in the profession but they are the ones who are taken advantage of and ultimately end up completely burnt out, either leaving or ending up on long term sick leave. Some may think I was just unlucky, and it is not like that everywhere, but all my nursing friends have experienced bullying and toxic working conditions.
You see the problem is not really the pay. Whilst there is no doubt that nurses deserve a higher wage to reflect their level of training, skills, level of responsibility, and the demands of the job, it is still a reasonable salary to start on and this is why many are often conflicted about leaving because the benefits are good in comparison to the private sector. Although I have been out of practice for 2 years, my registration is still live and I will most likely end up returning because there are no jobs out there that don't require further higher education that pay just as well. I can't afford to retrain and go back to uni as I have a son to support as a single parent, otherwise I would. So I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.
In my opinion the real issue is the working conditions. Not only the culture, but how can a nurse provide safe and effective care when they are working 13 hour shifts with 30 mins mins for lunch and two 15 min breaks? Unpaid breaks bear in mind. Looking after a bay of 8 unwell patients with increasingly complex needs. Or out in the community handling unmanageable caseloads,where the ageing population is increasing and more complex care is being undertaken in patients homes. It is just not sustainable to work at that level for any length of time without burning out.
If the NHS is to survive, staff need to be the number one priority. Without healthy, happy, satisfied staff how can the system function safely and effectively? And just like another poster said, relying on the altruism of health professionals to continue delivering despite all they are up against is no longer an option. Things are out of control in the NHS. Something drastic needs to change. Striking is probably not the answer, and for most nurses it goes completely against their values of prioritising patients, but the government need to realise that the NHS can not be propped up by relying on the goodwill of it's staff.

I'm so sorry you had this experience. I am a District nurse, and nothing like you've described would ever happen in our work place. I think you were very unlucky with your colleagues.

Mamai90 · 06/10/2022 21:39

100% support here.

KangarooKenny · 06/10/2022 21:41

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 06/10/2022 19:48

Why do you work private then? They're crying out for nurses in the NHS.

Is it because your basic pay is better than theirs and you have flexibility to choose the shifts you fancy?

I did my job in the NHS, but the NHS didn’t want to pay to continue the service, so they passed it on. I went with the job.

Prinnny · 06/10/2022 21:42

Mentalpiece · 06/10/2022 20:33

Yes, I support them every step of the way.
Show me another profession where the staff go through three years of university and treated like dogsbodies while doing placements at the same time.
Then to finally qualify and find yourself being physically and sexually assaulted, threatened, spoken to in a derogatory manner and treated like shit.
That's before you start with the soul destroying shift pattern and hours where work / life balance doesn't exist.
My youngest is one of the many nurses in my family, last year she had her jaw broken by a big bloke simply for apologising for the fact that he had to pay for parking.
Big bloke got off with basically a slap on the wrist. Charge reduced to common assault, fined £140 plus costs!!
They're the backbone of the NHS because without them, there wouldn't be a functional health service. They deserve every penny of their hard earned pay packets.
So yes, I support them fully.

Hope your youngest is okay! I was screamed at and squared up to today by a patient but fortunately I’m used to it now and completely unaffected by it. How sad is that. The joys of front line nursing, first they clapped us, now they fight us.

ILoveMonday · 06/10/2022 21:54

I often ask myself why I accept the norm of working a 12.5 hour shift, an hour of that being an unpaid break but never actually taking the break. I ask myself how many other people would put up with that in their jobs?

There are lots of people that do jobs like this - they're either in the caring profession or public sector. If I support the nurses then I feel I should also support teaching staff, police and carers.

In saying this, just because people work in the private sector doesn't mean they're well paid - one of the worst jobs I ever had was working in the private sector. Pay and holiday were both shit - the lower end of the private sector is basically slavery and there's no recourse through strike action or you get fired.

Putonyourshoes · 06/10/2022 21:58

ILoveMonday · 06/10/2022 21:54

I often ask myself why I accept the norm of working a 12.5 hour shift, an hour of that being an unpaid break but never actually taking the break. I ask myself how many other people would put up with that in their jobs?

There are lots of people that do jobs like this - they're either in the caring profession or public sector. If I support the nurses then I feel I should also support teaching staff, police and carers.

In saying this, just because people work in the private sector doesn't mean they're well paid - one of the worst jobs I ever had was working in the private sector. Pay and holiday were both shit - the lower end of the private sector is basically slavery and there's no recourse through strike action or you get fired.

I acknowledged other professions do the same, I said there were very few and you’ve named a few. I would support those professionals in a strike too but this thread is specifically about us nurses.

winewolfhowls · 06/10/2022 22:06

Best of luck to them.

In addition to pay I would like to see staff have the ability to throw out the drugged up, drunk and abusive people that clog up A and E. The working conditions and abuse are unbelievable for those poor nurses who are worked off their feet.

TessoftheDobermans · 06/10/2022 22:58

I totally support the nurses, and anyone else who exercises their legal right to withdraw their labour.

PinkyFlamingo · 07/10/2022 00:49

All the references to Unison balloting I assume refer to England, here in Scotland I got my ballot papers today.

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