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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Social services ....

42 replies

netflixandnaps · 30/09/2022 11:54

AIBU to be really peed off with this situation?

My step father with bad dementia and insulin/pill medicated diabetes (85) has been in respite care for 4 weeks since my mum was admitted to hospital after collapsing, he’s due to come out Sunday, however, we’ve just informed social services that my 77 year old mother (who’s now apparently meant to look after him (up close) and clean up his daily unpredictable explosive diarrhoea) has got COVID, but they seem to have no issues releasing a sick man with dementia into a home with covid. There are carers in place to come four times a day (for personal care only) but will they want to come into a house with covid and who's meant to let them in while my mother is sick in bed and step father can't answer the door for obvious reasons.

We've notified the home and SS but they seem to have no thought for my step father or my mother (main carer).

OP posts:

SmallElephants · 30/09/2022 11:56

Does your stepdad have capacity and if not who if anyone has powers?
your mum will need to refuse his discharge to her care and request further respite.

SmallElephants · 30/09/2022 11:57

Make sure u r getting the full picture from your mum. She might be saying she is able to look after him. Or he might be saying that.

hellsbells99 · 30/09/2022 12:19

Carers will come in still - they will wear masks and plastic aprons.
do your parents have a Keysafe so the carers can let themselves in?

Original poster

netflixandnaps · 30/09/2022 12:35

@SmallElephants

Mum can't cope anymore. He's dangerous at home, set light to the oven by putting plastic in there, flooded the bathroom.... Mum would pop out for 5 and she'd say/leave a white board saying don't touch anything and he would still try and 'help' by touching things. Since the fire situation she now turns all appliances off at the mains and luckily the mains to the hob and oven are hidden way at the back of cupboards so he'd never find them.

He has capacity in the sense he can still just about dress himself but that's literally It. He can't do any personal care anymore.. A because of his stomach issues most of the time he can't make it to the loo which makes it a lot of work for mum with clothes/bedding needed to be changed/washed daily. We even had to take up the bedroom carpet because of repeated 'accidents'.

Mum has no choice but to have him home as she doesn't have the funds to keep him in the care home.

OP posts:

mamabear715 · 30/09/2022 12:42

Surely this can't be right, if he's a danger to himself & everyone round him?
I hope someone who works in this field can advise you, @netflixandnaps

Original poster

netflixandnaps · 30/09/2022 12:51

We've spoken to SS and the care home and they won't do anything. Doesn't seem to matter than my mother can't cope. Sending 4 carers in a day to check his pad is their limit, our issue is, what about all the other hours in a day when they're not here, mum isn't going to leave shit all over the house and him covered, all that while she has covid is absurd. Just out of hospital, supposed to be resting, is not right.

OP posts:

RedRobyn101 · 30/09/2022 12:53

You can get a key safe which will give the carers access. They will come in despite covid. If your step dad is unsafe at home (presumably he hasn’t got capacity), when he was in respite why didn’t you/ the family find a permanent care home. If he has capacity he has every right to go home.

LaurieFairyCake · 30/09/2022 12:54

She can just refuse to have him home as it's not safe and he will stay in

But she has to be really firm about that and they will try to emotionally blackmail her

Enterthewolves · 30/09/2022 12:57

Agrée with @LaurieFairyCake your Mum needs to refuse to have him
home. She needs to be very clear she cannot provide any care and that if he is discharged home he will be at risk of harm.

eggsandbaconeveryday · 30/09/2022 13:03

Your mum can refuse to have him home until she is well. Tell social services that it would be an 'unsafe discharge' and that you do not accept the care package that they have offered because he requires 24hr care. The issue you have is that carers will be reluctant to spend much time there due to their being Covid in the house. I would also mention that the care company have a duty of care to make sure that their other clients are not affected/ infected as much as their staff. Do they realise that your step father is incontinent and lacks capacity to be able to clean up after him self ?

If SS are planning to discharge him you have a right to see the care plan that should have been written for him - it will most likely not be in-depth enough so you can ask for changes to be made . Those changes need to include washing of the sheets and towels and also all personal care. They should also be making his meals because your mum is not well enough to do so. They should be at least 4x 1 hour calls - no less.
I hope you manage to sort something out

Mischance · 30/09/2022 13:08

Just say no. Refuse for him to be home till proper care is in place. Make it clear to the home and SS that he cannot come home. Mention the words Vulnerable Adults, and statutory duties.

I had carers in and out for my OH and you could bet your life that he would be fine when they were there, then s**t himself the minute they left and I would have to deal with it.

Anyone got power of attorney?

gamerchick · 30/09/2022 13:10

Pull up the drawbridge. Step in in, tell them your mother isn't going to be home to receive him so they'll he delivering him to an empty house and the responsibility will stay on their shoulders.

It's the only way to force the issue. It's shit and it's all down to money but sadly it's the only way.

PostladyPatty · 30/09/2022 13:14

The metformin is the cause of his tummy issues. He either needs different meds for his diabetes or some else to negate it

I take metformin and also statins, the statins cause constipation so they negate the tummy issues of the metformin

10HailMarys · 30/09/2022 13:20

You need to keep pushing SS and the care home, OP. You need to get a financial assessment done of your parents' income to establish what social care funding they can get for residential care.

My mum was in a similar situation with my dad. Different health issues to your dad's, but he's 80, incontinent, can barely walk, is on multiple timed drugs and has bouts of psychosis. He tries to get up several times a night and falls every time. He was taken into hospital by ambulance during a very severe episode and they still wanted to discharge him straight home after a week. They then discharged him to a care home, and we had to push social services before they would accept that my mum couldn't safely meet his needs. My parents pay some of his care fees and the council pays the rest.

Crazydoglady1980 · 30/09/2022 13:36

Your Mum needs to refuse to provide care for him, and refuse to have him home. No person has to take on a caring responsibility and social care need to evidence that the care they are offering does not leave a person at risk. As pp have asked, does anyone have power of attorney for him?
Is it a joint property? Has a financial assessment been made?
When SS are contacted discuss ‘unsafe discharge’, ‘continuing care assessment’, ‘risk of harm’ and ‘duty of care’.

CaptainSamCarter · 30/09/2022 13:41

Ring Adult Social Care and ask to make a safeguarding referral. Explain that you believe that this will be an "unsafe discharge" and explain your reasons.

If the hospital trust has a safeguarding team you can talk to do the same. Definitely push the idea of "unsafe discharge".

Eatglass · 30/09/2022 13:46

We had similar with FIL - MIL came to stay with us 'indefinitely' and we forced SS's hand to sort alternate care. It didn't feel nice doing it but it was a last resort. FIL went into residential care and MIL returned home.

Ilovetocrochet · 30/09/2022 13:50

If your father goes into a care home, only his money can be used to pay the fees. A financial assessment will count half of any joint savings, half his occupational pension and all of his state pension when calculating what care fees need to be paid. The value of the house is disregarded if your mother is still living there.

If your fathers assets are over £25,000 ( approx as I can’t remember exact amount), he will pay the full fees. Assets between £14,000 and £25,000 mean your father will pay a contribution towards the fees. Lower than £14,000 and the LA pays all the fees.

If your father has been assessed as having no capacity and you or your mother have power of attorney, then you can arrange for your father to go into a care home without social services being involved - providing that he has enough funds. With capacity he has the right to go home but your mum cannot be forced to care for him, I know of situations where a spouse has had to leave their home to live elsewhere in order to get the necessary care package. With no POA or sufficient funds, then you do not have the right to insist on where he lives and social services will have to be involved.

Jessbow · 30/09/2022 15:01

Thing is, he probably cant just stay where he is..

What would have happened had your mother not got covid? What would have been different?

You annot shout 'unsafe discharge' as your mother isnt the one with the issue as such- and she is the one being discharged.

Alerting SS t the whole situation maybe a way to go. 4 visits a day is standard, you wont get much more.
You need to go through the processes of admitting him to anappropriate care home longer term. Needs assesment, financial assesment etc.

There are 100's of older people the country over in the same situation

LunaStateOfMind · 30/09/2022 15:10

Can you tell them your mother is so unwell she is staying with you for care so the house is empty?

mamabear715 · 30/09/2022 16:14

Some good advice on here, @netflixandnaps
I think you'll have to fight & fight, it's not pleasant & takes SO much time, my sis & I were fortunate in that our late mum could self fund a care home & it SO cut out the damn middle man.
Update us when you have time.

HansSolo22 · 30/09/2022 16:22

I had a very similar situation recently, if it's his house also, your mum can't just refuse to have him home. It's absurd but if he is deemed to have capacity, then your options are very limited. It's awful, I know how distressing this must be for you all. Our situation was only resolved when our step dad was sectioned. It felt like we were fighting for support every single day and got none. I hope you get some help soon.

HansSolo22 · 30/09/2022 16:27

I know some people have said they won't send him home to an empty house if your mum stays elsewhere, but that wasn't the case with us. My mum moved out and they sent him home and he deteriorated so badly and quickly that he was sectioned. And still we had to fight for him to go to a care home after that, they still wanted to send him home. And mum had POA which wasn't worth the paper is was written on.

fallinover · 30/09/2022 16:43

I would take your mum to your house.
Explain to social services and healthcare services that it would be an unsafe discharge.
That there is no one in the family house and it is currently shut up, switch gas and water off if you have to.
Request further assessment and support for your dad.

Namedifferentorquestion · 30/09/2022 16:52

@netflixandnaps

If they own there own home then use it to fund private care. Don't rely on the state because it is awful and cuts mean getting worse.

Can you offer care at all?

There is a huge shortage of carers to call each day. The NHS is full of what is termed as 'bed blockers' so people that need operations cannot have them because mainly elderly people who need to be at home or in residential/nursing care are not leaving hospital....

If people have money they can escape this nightmare and find a decent private nursing home. Lots of families that can afford this option won't take it and want someone else to pay but social care is broken.

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