To think student loans based on household income are unreasonable

[Starsinyoureyes13]

My daughter will only be 17 when she starts uni next year, im hoping she gets into the halls of residence as then she will have her own room as currently she shares a room with her very messy and loud sister. Right now I'm currently the main earner in my home, I earn a little over 25k to support 4 of us, My partners business is going down the tubes and may have to call it a day as anything he earns is being put into the company. So come next year my daughter will get about £600 in bursary and 6100 in a loan, she won't be able to get a bar job as she is under 18 and any work she does will pay bare minimum due to her age, so looks like I'll have to fund her until she's 18 which won't be until next January. How do other parents cope with their kids at uni do you part fund them?
Its all confusing
Though still see it as unreasonable that household income dictates who gets what

My daughter is 16 and currently doing her advanced highers, next year she will be 17. Should of stated she was Scottish. But here kids start primary school between 4 and a half to 5 and a half. So you can either be the oldest kid in the class or like my daughter the youngest.

So for a few months she will be slightly younger than her peers? It is hardly the end of the world that she can't do a bar job for a few months. It may well be that your calculation is ignoring your husbands business income. Even if you say he is reinvesting it it will still perhaps be viewed as income.

If she’s Scottish, doesn’t she get to go to uni for free there so just maintenance to pay?

You know there's other jobs out there other than bar work!

"Just maintenance" ! Like accommodation and living costs. Tuition fees are paid via loans for non Scottish students anyway, only repayable when earning above the threshold.

Erm, working in a food place doesn't mean she'd be cooking. She could wait on or be a server

Well there are other jobs she can do, but yes I do agree re the loans. Or rather I think that it needs to be more widely known that student loans for maintenance (fee’s are always 100% loan) are means tested. What annoys me most is mums new boyfriend’s income (If applicable) is taken into consideration of household income whereas biological fathers is now (or vice versa if child lives with dad). In the US parents often start college savings funds at birth. In the U.K. only parents of Uni age kids seem to know this as no-one I’ve spoken to about this is aware

In your situation OP parents are expected to make up the gap between the loan they get (6k in this case) and the max loan for those parents earning minimal income (around 12k I think). Many parents do not, some can’t afford it and some just won’t. So the student has to work, which is fine but too many hours can impact on their degree (which is of course the reason they are there).

Scotland doesn't charge tuition does it?

There's no tuition fees in Scotland for Scottish students @BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz The loan is the maintenance loan for living expenses.

The free tuition makes a difference to the student once they're working in the future but doesn't actually make any difference to the parents

But living at university is a choice really. Many young people in the whole of the UK stay at home and attend local unis because the costs of living on campus are prohibitive. So the 17yo is ready for uni - she goes to her local one.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · Today 20:31
But living at university is a choice really. Many young people in the whole of the UK stay at home and attend local unis because the costs of living on campus are prohibitive. So the 17yo is ready for uni - she goes to her local one.“

not really. Some universities specialise - our local one in forensics - and you really want to be on the best course available.

My dd has worked at McDonald's since she was 17. Good wages, flexible on hours and use to students.

Not everywhere has a 'local' uni at all, never mind one that offers the right kind of course.

What annoys me most is mums new boyfriend’s income (If applicable) is taken into consideration of household income whereas biological fathers is now (or vice versa if child lives with dad)
I agree. A friend of mine found herself responsible not only for her own children but those of her partner after he lost his job during the peak pandemic but she still had a reasonably well paid job. My friend then found that her salary was what determined the loan for 2 young adults who had only been in her life a few years, just because their Dad had moved in with her and their own mother had decided she didn't want to be involved. How can that possibly be fair? The kids did all get jobs and they got through it, but I think it is appalling that both non resident parents were able to shrug their shoulders, say their children were over 18 so not their problem, despite both being very comfortably off, but an unrelated woman, not even married to their father should be expected to fund them. I know nobody could actually force her to do so, but the government clearly do expect it given the way the loans are calculated.

It's lovely that you're so supportive of your daughter, genuinely.

I do however suggest that you check out a) the proportion of PhDs who go on to an academic career and b) the skills involved in an academic career (and completing a PhD), which certainly include working both independently and with others

OP is in Scotland, her DD is not going to university young she is going with her year group, yes she can get a loan at 17, she won’t need tuition fees but needs to live. The maximum she can get as a loan is the amount the OP stated £6100, based on the OPs household income the Scottish government would probably also give a bursary of £500.

The max any Scottish student can get (not counting studying in London) is £8100 so even topping up to that amount the OPs DD would need to find some other income.

Why bar work? Students can work in retail, call centres, leisure centres, restaurants.

There are plenty of places in Scotland not even on the same island as a university, let alone within daily commutable distance of one. I live within closer distance to 5 or 6 university cities in England than I did to my closest 'local' city when I lived in Scotland.

I get that. I get that unis can be further out or that specialised unis are clearly not always next to your house - but there us a choice here

Uni close to home - no loan needed
Uni far away - save save save, defer til saved, extra loan, etc.

There's already a benefit that she won't graduate with fee debt. So like all grown ups, we follow the paths we can afford.

But when there isn’t a university that is close to home? There are plenty of communities where there isn’t a high school let alone a university. I suppose all prospective students in parts of the borders can limited their ambition to textile design at Heriot-Watt borders campus because that’s largely it.

Living in halls is an expensive and optional choice, especially in Scotland where many students commute. She has options - loans (£6.8k will pay for most of her halls) and work, gap year and save, commute, parental contributions. The tax payer is already significantly subsidising her, there is no magic money tree for taking expensive choices if her parents haven't planned ahead financially. Your frustration at the tax payer not supporting her going to halls is misdirected.

She has free tuition, free buses, tax free earnings for PT work. Ds and most of his friends saved nearly £2k each working (and none in bar work, mostly fast food, cafe/restaurants, retail or leisure) the long summer from the end of may to mid September before uni and is continuing to work 2-3 nights now he has started.

Ds is choosing to commute, use the free buses, not take a maintenance loan this year so he has less debt and will work to fund socialising/save for next year when he might take the min maintenance loan and move out. We have some savings built up in an account for him over the years hidden away in case he needs it later, but so far he is managing himself.

If household income had dropped by 20% or more, then hernlian can be calculated on a current year basis.Additionally most universities give a bursary of at least 2k for low income students

Isn't that how it used to be?

I don't think it should take household income into account, except bursaries for the very poorest. Not all parents want to / will fund their children through tertiary education. Loans are supposed to be repaid. So change the system so graduates repay and treat students the same.

12k isn’t the max for courses outside London. It isn’t mandatory to study in London

Uni close to home - no loan needed
Staying at home isn't always a simple or cheap option though is it? Maybe if you live in a city and it really is close, but not if you are well outside a major conurbation.
The transport costs from where we live to our nearest University would be significant and the infrequency of the trains would more or less preclude any kind of job in the evenings. Plus of course a student living at home still needs to eat, be clothed, uses hot water and so on. Who would pay for that if there was no loan?
I agree it would probably still be cheaper for my DS to be going to the nearest University than living away but not by a huge amount, and as he can't drive or cycle due to a disability the benefits of living somewhere where he can easily walk or take a bus are massive. I'd still have to subsidise him if he were at home, so I'd rather subsidise him to be away and get more out of University.
Obviously our circumstances are unique to us, but I'd imagine that there are many students for whom staying at home is not practical for various reasons or represents only a fairly modest cost saving. So it's not the answer for everyone.