it's daft to think parents with kids in private school have money to burn?

[Popgoestheweaselagain]

Just got asked by my school what would be the impact if they had to pay VAT, adding 20% to fees. My response was 'I'd try to keep my child in the school, but ....'. I think almost all parents would respond this way. Alarmed, did a quick google, and found this is Labour policy. Next time they come knocking at my door looking for my vote, I'll be telling them why they can't have it!

Now, I understand why some people are ideologically opposed to private schools, the unfariness etc. But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

@Doingprettywellthanks

yes

I would likely pay for private tuition in that instance rather than private school option which would completely kibosh holidays and other treats I need to keep me going.

I think the people paying fees for kids at private schools who argue that they aren't wealthy are just completely out of touch with how the majority of people live tbh. Of course they're wealthy, merely by virtue of having the freedom to make that choice.

It's a bit like the high earners you often see on here who claim that they're income is just average. Some people clearly live in a middle class bubble without any idea of their own privilege.

Thanks for this reply. I was stuck at WTAF??!!!!……. Can we call time on this OP now. H/She is very clearly not someone to have a meaningful conversation with.

Agreed and an important distinction.

Hey probably a bit unclear I meant we use both state and private . They were both selective in their own manner (test plus fees v house prices)

Re another post after yours re paying stamp duty, fee payers do pay tax for state anyway they just don’t use the place.

I’m not clear - is this about private schools or about people who are wealthy (paying the highest rate of tax)? If we’re aiming to get everyone to check their privilege then those mixing with Etonians past and present might want to start there.

I am of course aware that they pay tax on their earnings without actually using the state education that they help pay for, but so what? That's their choice.

It doesn't change the fact that private education is a luxury, and as such, I see no reason why it shouldn't be taxed.

I meant eaners in the lowest tax bracket. They obviously can't cut any more for people who don't earn enough to pay income tax, anyway. Actually, I think their a bit off their rocker myself with the bonus's for bankers and cutting out highest income bracket tax. However, their clearly aiming at keeping families and businesses afloat, rather than hitting people with higher taxes at exactly the time that they can't afford it, thus shrinking the economy. Something like adding VAT to school fees (if you agree with it at all) should be phased in when it's not going to have such a dramatic impact. So, when I say they're 'planning quite well', I should have said 'planning quite well, compared to Labour' (which isn't saying much).

Anyhow, we've got kind of off topic. The original question was: can people who pay private school fees afford an extra 20%, or will schools close if this is implemented?

There, he was treated as if he were the most important and special boy ever born (which he is, obviously Grin).

@EstoPerpetua I understand you are speaking about your son's specific circumstances but if you are saying that Eton's standard approach is to treat boys like 'they are the most important and special boy ever born', one does wonder if this is a recipe for disaster for life beyond school. It brings to mind the attitude of a certain ex-PM.

Not sure if that was aimed at me?

I am absolutely privileged and so is my dd, but at least she is aware of it. We are lucky enough to have been in a position to make a choice about private education, and indeed to decide where we wanted to live. We didn't feel that private school fees were worth the investment, but of course we were immensely fortunate to have had the opportunity to make that choice. Your point being?

simple answer is no- Not everyone will be able to stay in private Ed if they do. The question is: can state school absorb the 15% of those children who move out to state all at once? Short answer: no

Exactly this. People will say we are not wealthy we have made major cuts and scrimp and save to send our kids to private school. What they dont realise is that for a vast majority of people even if they lived under a bridge and never ate they still wouldn't be able to afford private school. Its not a case of choosing not to scrimp and save its a matter of scrimping and saving would still leave them thousands of pounds short.

But Labour have been talking about this for years. Was it just that you assumed that they would never get elected and so you didn't worry about it, or did you not consider all scenarios when you made the decision to go private?

Anyhow, we've got kind of off topic. The original question was: can people who pay private school fees afford an extra 20%, or will schools close if this is implemented?

even without a fee increase quite a few are probably going to close soon. I remember when I was a kid in the 80s and parents tightened their belts the local private school closed. People won’t be able to afford it as easily with mortgages, energy bills, etc going up.

That you didn’t seem to check your own privilege until the below..

but great to have that clarity

You have just summed up the state of the whole world. Inequality is everywhere.

I'm think people also need to consider the fact that by people putting their children into private school we are saving the government money by doing so and not taking public school funds. There would be a lot of families who are just scraping by to put their children through private school who would then have to rely on the state to pay for them. The public school system is stretched to the max already.

This is the first time I've started a mumsnet thread that has turned so vitriolic. People change the topic of the thread and then complain that you're too ignorant to bother engaging with?! Well, so why engage in the first place? As I'd admitted that I'd only just found out about this particular plan, you might have gathered that I don't follow this type of politics that closely. There are some good things in the tax cuts and others that made me go 'hmm ...??', but that wasn't the topic of the thread.

Anyway, I'm off to throw a few more starving children into the fire to pay my heating bill. I might eat an avocado for breakfast. I seem to remember the Duchess of Sussex managed to cause world drought by doing that.

That doesn't mean the people who can afford private school are wealthy. If a couple lives in a 3 bed semi, one of them works earning £45,000, the other a sahp. They drive a 5 year old nissan. Would you call them wealthy? I wouldn't.

Now the stay at home patent decides to go to work and uses all the money they earn to pay for school fees. That's still not wealthy. They can pay the fees, but they're not wealthy.

The thread wasn't about my privilege, but I quite clearly acknowledged above that there are plenty of privileged families using the state system.

As someone who is heavily involved with a couple of charities that support the poorest and most vulnerable people people in our society, not to mention being married to someone who grew up in extreme poverty himself, I am pretty unlikely to forget how lucky I am. For many people I meet, though, it doesn't seem so much that they forget how privileged they are, it's as if they genuinely have no idea in the first place. I would never want my dc growing up in that kind of blinkered bubble, or for her to be so lacking in self awareness.

OP I won’t vote Labour for the same reason. FWIW if there is any way you can pay some fees in advance, VAT won’t be charged on those fees already paid up front. We’re sadly likely to be receiving an inheritance in the next year or two, we’ve already decided we will use it to pay school fees up front to avoid any future VAT.

The average full-time salary in the UK is £24,600. So your example family breadwinner earns £20,000 more than average, and then on top of that they will have the income of the former SAHP - even if they only earn £20,000 that is a household income of £65,000.

I know this is Mumsnet where it's fashionable to complain that you are stretched on £100k a year, and we also have to consider outgoings - but in your example, presumably the £45k covers the mortgage, bills and all other expenses because the (e.g.) £20k is disposable income.

If you have a spare £20k annually - yes, you are wealthy in my book.

Wealth seems to mean different things to different people.

But i cant see where this couples srimped and saved and made sacrifices either.

Super. The thread is about paying a tax uplift on school fees.

It doesn’t need proof of true understanding of inequality, real or imagined, charity work or anything else.

its just can people currently paying school fees pay 20 percent more, by in large they can’t.