it's daft to think parents with kids in private school have money to burn?

[Popgoestheweaselagain]

Just got asked by my school what would be the impact if they had to pay VAT, adding 20% to fees. My response was 'I'd try to keep my child in the school, but ....'. I think almost all parents would respond this way. Alarmed, did a quick google, and found this is Labour policy. Next time they come knocking at my door looking for my vote, I'll be telling them why they can't have it!

Now, I understand why some people are ideologically opposed to private schools, the unfariness etc. But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

It is not true that everyone would be 'thrilled' for their child to attend.

Many people really would not want to send their kids away to be indoctrinated into this weird subculture.

No one demands funding, they just pay higher house prices and get selection that way

Grades go up and people are happy they got it for free

I agree. I know a few old etonians, and a couple of current ones. It certainly wouldn't be what I would aspire to for my dc. Each to their own, I guess.

Exactly this Scream. I am despairing at people stating VAT and charity rules incorrectly.

I would just like to say that Eton is not the school that people think it is. It is a lovely, warm, kind, nurturing school that anyone would be thrilled for their son to attend. It bears no resemblance to the popular perception.

I agree. We play Eton at sport regularly and I've found both the boys and parents to be friendly and unassuming. Ditto for Harrow.

Can't say the same for a particular school in north London whose parents come across as arrogant and obnoxious.

MarshaBradyo the posts I’m referring to are those which claimed schools would improve if all these rich parents currently educating their children privately had to send them to state schools. Apparently these parents would demand change.
My question is what can these private school parents do that state school parents aren’t already doing.

Grades go up and people are happy they got it for free

Why will grades go up? Just because parents can afford private schools doesn’t make their children more intelligent. In fact, it’s a popular view on mn that the children of rich people are thick and only get into university because they’ve been spoon fed at private schools.

Independent Special Schools are not the same as Private Schools and fully deserve their Charitable Status. In fact any School, private or otherwise that has a dedicated SEN Unit/School should have that provision ring-fenced as Charitable for Tax Purposes.

There is no way that DS would have turned out as well as he has without a protracted fight to get the Educational Provision that only the Indy Special School sector could provide. And moving 200 miles to be near to the provision, so similar to the School Catchment Area scenarios that some families think important now.

We're back the 200 miles now, safe and sound albeit poorish. Life means that you can't expect that A+B= or 1+2= or that everything follows in a pre-ordained way. Life rolls the dice in unexpected ways an that is the only given.

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen every single poster? Are you sure? I'm one of the posters who spoke about SEN dc and I also acknowledged its absolutely a privilege. I am not wealthy. Our school fees are not as much as most to be fair. Not doable on minimum wage but im not on masses more.

it’s a popular view on mn that the children of rich people are thick and only get into university because they’ve been spoon fed at private schools.

No. Better nutrition, support, nurturing and absence of all the issues associated with poverty mean rich kids do better. They aren't thick at all, just very comparatively privileged.

I agree. I know a few old etonians, and a couple of current ones. It certainly wouldn't be what I would aspire to for my dc. Each to their own, I guess.

MrsBennet well I’m sure you’ve pointed out to these boys’ parents the error of their ways.
As a matter of interest, given your strong views on the iniquities of private education, especially Eton, how do you come across these current Etonians? Surely you far prefer your children to mix with state school friends.

I repeat… she was a teacher in the state system, so…yes, she obviously did think it was worth it.

This is kind of my point. There isn't a weird subculture. It's a huge school, which means that, like every school, it has its share of complete wankers. They aren't the majority, though. They're not representative of the school as whole, either.

My own experience is that it is the one school which was able to accept and positively welcome my neurodiverse son. He had a very difficult ride until he went to Eton. There, he was treated as if he were the most important and special boy ever born (which he is, obviously ).

I can't believe that anyone alive wouldn't want their son to be at a school where they are celebrated for being who they are.

Andante I’m against this policy but I think there’s a kind of moral superiority over state but ime parents buy in other ways.

Speaking from position of using state that is so coveted mc parents nearly had bust ups at planning meeting and also selective private.

I don’t accept state parents don’t exercise privilege in other ways. The results are high in the state school we use, comparatively to country.

Let the higher amount of people pay twice and don’t force them to take precious state places

btw I get what you were saying, and agree they won’t demand change.

No. Better nutrition, support, nurturing and absence of all the issues associated with poverty mean rich kids do better. They aren't thick at all, just very comparatively privileged.

ArabellaScott okay, well I’m sure that’s true, but it doesn’t answer my and another poster’s question about why private school parents will be able to improve state schools should their children attend them.

Speaking from position of using state that is so coveted mc parents nearly had bust ups at planning meeting and also selective private.

MarchaBradyo thank you for answering my question, but I don’t understand this sentence.

I don't disagree in the slightest that other parents exercise privilege by buying expensive houses near coveted state schools. I guess they pay tax on this privilege through extra stamp duty etc.

Private school is a luxury. I can't see a single valid argument for making it exempt from VAT.

Yet again, Maybel hits the nail on the head. Quoting because this deserves repeating.

YANBU. As a teacher who has worked in British state and private schools, and international schools, I can state that of course there are parents who are objectively wealthy - however, there are many more who live modest lives and make sacrifices to send their children to private schools. Sadly, the state system fails both pupils and teachers on so many levels - but that's material for another thread! Interestingly, though, the most successful people I have met in life were all state educated.

I do completely agree that independent special schools are different. I think it's right that they should have charitable status and that they should be exempt from VAT.

I think the idea is there is more chance they have the ear of power or have a voice that might be heard. My MPs children go to private school and he went to private school. He held a cabinet post not so long ago he could literally sit with the PM and say this isnt good enough. But its not just the children of mps, but journalists, industry leaders, broadcasters, royalty - people that get listened to. Im not sure if it would work in practice or not

If it was a choice between private school v holidays

holidays would win every time

holidays are essential to my well-being and as the breadwinner what I need to keep me ticking over takes precedence

Even if your catchment area school was in special measures and basically a shit show?

Get rid of private schools and there will be more parent pressure. It’s true. I suspect a lot of that pressure will be for grammar schools and mores streaming. Not exactly an egalitarian nirvana.

people pay stamp duty and then see the house price increase in part due to the school. It’s all fair and it’s a good return on investment for the school and the house.

Well clearly they do have some money to spend! Fees for one child are more than half the average household income.

Even those on scholarships will be paying a fair wack. Say for arguments sake someone has two children on 80% scholarships. Thats a high subsidy. But even for that its 20% of £30k. So £6k per year. Could easily be more if fees are more than £15 per year.
The average household income in England according to ONS is £31,400. So most people absolutely can’t afford private school no matter how much they may scrimp and save.