Page 26 | it's daft to think parents with kids in private school have money to burn?

Popgoestheweaselagain · 2022-09-29T12:04:53+00:00

Just got asked by my school what would be the impact if they had to pay VAT, adding 20% to fees. My response was 'I'd try to keep my child in the school, but ....'. I think almost all parents would respond this way. Alarmed, did a quick google, and found this is Labour policy. Next time they come knocking at my door looking for my vote, I'll be telling them why they can't have it! Now, I understand why some people are ideologically opposed to private schools, the unfariness etc. But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

Wishihadanalgorithm · 29/09/2022 18:02

I also know of many children in indies whose parents have to scrimp to pay fees. Many of the children have SEN which wasn’t addressed properly in state Ed and the parents gave up and moved their children. I’ve even known of parents who released equity from their homes to pay school fees.

Again, if these children go back into state schools who is going to fund them? How is the government going to pay the additional teachers’ salaries and also how will the government fund the teachers’ pensions? Many indies have come out of the TPS as the schools’ contributions are (I think) 24%. This is huge.

Original poster

Popgoestheweaselagain · 29/09/2022 18:02

BarnabyRocks · 29/09/2022 17:50

Private schools are exempt from paying VAT due to some age old law that allows them to PRETEND to be a charitable organisations, which they are clearly not. The money they save not paying VAT, as opposed to other service-providing, non-VAT exempt businesses, as well as the fees they charge, allows these school to provide better environments, better paid teachers, better after school experiences, etc. The policy to stop fee charging, 'private' schools pretending to be charities and to make them pay VAT, is aimed at the businesses/schools themselves, not the parents who pay these fees. By continuing to allowing the private schools to benefit from not having to pay VAT, this perpetuates an us and them, deeply unfair, segregated education system, in which the the children of those who can afford to send their children to private schools, have massively better life chances, compared to those who's parents cannot. The purpose of the policy is to provide more funds for state educated children and level up the education system, so the life chances for all children, something I'm sure you will agree with, becomes more fair. States schools are basically at the mercy of the government and get what they are given. My local primary school will absolutely not be able to afford its heating bill this year, over the last years has had to make teacher redundancies and increases class sizes to over the recommended limit because they get what they are given from the state and it's not enough. Lats year they put out a request for a donation of painting bibs, it's that bad. I'm certain your private school doesn't have that problem and due to getting a free ride and not having to pay VAT on services, as well as the fees they charges. As to how much money you or anyone else who sends their child to private school has, I honestly, no offence, don't care.

Well, our school definitely doesn't have that problem. We have to buy our own painting bibs LOL!

One of my children had a place at our very popular local state, but one of my reasons for declining was that I didn't think it was fair to take up a place a family really wanted for their child when I was probably going to move them to private sector at some point. Either way, my child would have been OK. Don't see how not sending my child private would help your school finances, though. I just don't have a big enough budge to buy painting aprons for everybody's child - just my own.

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Octomore · 29/09/2022 18:02

Antarcticant · 29/09/2022 17:58

I am childfree and I don't begrudge it - throughout life I will need educated people younger than me to provide the goods and services I need to get through life.

By the same token, people who educate their children privately will not, as they grow older, rely only on goods and services provided by the labour of other privately educated children.

People might choose to educate their children privately to give them an advantage in life, and that's a choice, but it doesn't mean they don't benefit from state education as a whole. We couldn't function as a society if 95% of people were illiterate because their parents couldn't afford to school them privately.

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Same here, I agree

CinnamonOrangeCremeBrulee · 29/09/2022 18:03

I'd rather there was some kind of system to ensure private schools are validated to keep their current status whilst contributing to their local community, sharing facilities at reduced cost , educational training etc etc. There is such variance across the sector.

Anon778833 · 29/09/2022 18:04

i meant to say that I found out the parents of other girls in this year were encouraging their daughters to goad the child with SEN so that she would display unacceptable behaviour and be excluded. It was vile

BloodAndFire · 29/09/2022 18:04

Well, our school definitely doesn't have that problem. We have to buy our own painting bibs LOL!

Er. Do you think that state schools provide these? 😕

LuffleGro · 29/09/2022 18:04

Pengwinn · 29/09/2022 14:26

Its a very ignorant and simplistic view to assume people send their children to private schools have tonnes of money to burn and do so just because they can. Many save, scrape and beg and borrow to pay their children's fees as the mainstream provision is so epically shit for some children. Appropriate levels of staffing, smaller class sizes, more opportunities beyond a one size fits all curriculum is a lifeline to some children.

Still only for those that can afford it though, irrespective of how hard it is to afford.

JoyDivisionOvenGlovesx · 29/09/2022 18:05

Screamifyouwanttogofast · 29/09/2022 17:52

Universities are treated as Charities due to their research activities, so tuition fees would not automatically become subject to VAt

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Universities have their own ‘eligible body’ status under the VAT exemption, which does not specify charitable status.

CatherineMorland · 29/09/2022 18:05

@BarnabyRocks
The purpose of the policy is to provide more funds for state educated children and level up the education system, so the life chances for all children, something I'm sure you will agree with, becomes more fair.

But will having more DC competing for state school places really level up the education system?

20% VAT receipt on £20,000 fees is £1,000 per DC a year. Yet a state school place costs £6,000 - £8,000 a year per child.

You’d only need 100 DC to leave the independent sector for any yield from the VAT to be wiped out (assuming 600,000 DC are in the independent sector).

Sounds like your school is already at breaking point, how will it accommodate all those extra DC who can no longer stretch to paying school fees?

BloodAndFire · 29/09/2022 18:06

I don't really understand what your issue is, tbh.

If you can no longer afford private school, and withdraw your child, then you are in the same position as the vast majority of people in the UK, only with a load of extra money that you're now not spending on school fees.

Why is this an issue exactly?

Scarecrowrowboat · 29/09/2022 18:08

Some people have money to burn some kill themselves to afford it. My parents worked every hour they could, we didn't have holidays, we didn't live in the big house in the nice area like all the other kids at school because they were desperate for me to go to private school.
It wouldn't be my choice for my kids but I understand and am grateful for my parents sacrifices even if I think they should have just sent me to the local school.

SplashingMermaidSparkleTail · 29/09/2022 18:09

cloutneerbeout · 29/09/2022 13:08

So? That's your choice. It's a luxury, not a right. Private schools are businesses and they should pay VAT.

This!

Nesbo · 29/09/2022 18:10

I think if something is available to you for free but you decide you’d prefer the gold plated deluxe version for tens of thousands of pounds, that decision does suggest you have a fair bit of money available (our household income is north of a couple of hundred thousand a year and there is no way I’d consider us in a position to turn our backs on free education to pay private school fees).

this is very different to a mortgage, given we (pretty much) all have to pay for housing. If someone was offering me a 4 bed alternative house for free and it would save me the £1,800 a month on our mortgage costs…I’d be quite tempted.

Original poster

Popgoestheweaselagain · 29/09/2022 18:11

BloodAndFire · 29/09/2022 18:04

Well, our school definitely doesn't have that problem. We have to buy our own painting bibs LOL!

Er. Do you think that state schools provide these? 😕

I was replying to a post in which somebody said their school was asking for money for painting bibs. Was a bit surprised myself they were providing this in the first place, but that's where I got if from.

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Blankscreen · 29/09/2022 18:12

People's pockets are only so deep. So yeah add VAT onto school fees on top of everything else and that money has to come from somewhere.

So either people will stop spending else where (eg meals put /car finance) I'm not sure how that would hurt the economy over all in terms of the tax take or they will pull their kids out and put them into the state sector which will increase the burden on already over stretched budgets.

RIPQueen · 29/09/2022 18:13

cloutneerbeout · 29/09/2022 13:55

Yes, exactly! Are people really that stupid that they think the only reason anyone could ever object to private school is because they can't afford it themselves and are jealous? Or is that just what they tell themselves?

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No, some people can afford it but would rather have a nice holiday or a bigger house. Aka prioritise material crap ahead of education: idiots. But probably state educated 😆

so much confusion on this thread. Lots of chips on shoulders. Private education somehow better but not? It’s better. People make sacrifices to send their children - we never had holidays etc growing up as my mother valued our education and now we can afford to send our children.

the tories are fucking shit up extremely badly but I’m sure as shit not voting for a party who want 20% on private school fees as well as 40% tax. People being rude on here about private school people makes me extra sure I don’t want to do that 😃👏🏻

fluffinsalad · 29/09/2022 18:14

LuffleGro · 29/09/2022 18:04

Still only for those that can afford it though, irrespective of how hard it is to afford.

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And so what? Honestly I am sick of feeling guilty about doing well.

BunsyGirl · 29/09/2022 18:14

The richest parents pay their fees in advance - sometimes for the whole time the child is expected to be at the school as this generates the biggest discount. So it will be the ones paying monthly who will suffer the most from VAT being imposed - the squeezed middle as usual. But don’t let that you stop rubbing your hands with glee at getting one over on someone that you think has more money than you!

Original poster

Popgoestheweaselagain · 29/09/2022 18:14

Anyway. I'm kind of bored responding to people who haven't bothered reading the post. Is it fair that we have private schools? Should they pay VAT? No idea. Different post. Start your own post.

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Aria999 · 29/09/2022 18:14

I think the problem is they used to be charities providing education for those who needed it but now they are not any more.

I would be in favor of them keeping their charitable status if they offered needs blind admission, I.e. anyone who gets a place only has to pay according to their ability.

There is a lot of financial aid from the schools available in the US (where we are) for people who can't afford private school.

MarshaBradyo · 29/09/2022 18:15

CatherineMorland · 29/09/2022 18:05

@BarnabyRocks
The purpose of the policy is to provide more funds for state educated children and level up the education system, so the life chances for all children, something I'm sure you will agree with, becomes more fair.

But will having more DC competing for state school places really level up the education system?

20% VAT receipt on £20,000 fees is £1,000 per DC a year. Yet a state school place costs £6,000 - £8,000 a year per child.

You’d only need 100 DC to leave the independent sector for any yield from the VAT to be wiped out (assuming 600,000 DC are in the independent sector).

Sounds like your school is already at breaking point, how will it accommodate all those extra DC who can no longer stretch to paying school fees?

We use both sectors and for our state dc I’m fine with other dc going to private. You’re paying twice - tax and fees

It’s not going to help my dc to have the school more stretched to accommodate more dc when they leave private

It’s a very bad policy that just appeals to dragging others down

RIPQueen · 29/09/2022 18:15

fluffinsalad · 29/09/2022 18:14

And so what? Honestly I am sick of feeling guilty about doing well.

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The biggest argument for not feeling guilty is the level of vitriol on this thread directed to people who can afford things they can’t (or could but don’t as they prioritise differently)

Original poster

Popgoestheweaselagain · 29/09/2022 18:16

BunsyGirl · 29/09/2022 18:14

The richest parents pay their fees in advance - sometimes for the whole time the child is expected to be at the school as this generates the biggest discount. So it will be the ones paying monthly who will suffer the most from VAT being imposed - the squeezed middle as usual. But don’t let that you stop rubbing your hands with glee at getting one over on someone that you think has more money than you!

Yes, and thanks to all the people like this poster who actually get what I'm saying. I think I've had enough responses like this to show that I'm not the one living on the moon.

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waffless · 29/09/2022 18:16

They AREN’T charities and they shouldn’t be exempt from tax. I’m with Labour on this one and if they sort out their thinking on gender I’ll vote for them.

I think they may change the curriculum for gender ideology more likely. Wait and see.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 29/09/2022 18:20

Nesbo · 29/09/2022 18:10

I think if something is available to you for free but you decide you’d prefer the gold plated deluxe version for tens of thousands of pounds, that decision does suggest you have a fair bit of money available (our household income is north of a couple of hundred thousand a year and there is no way I’d consider us in a position to turn our backs on free education to pay private school fees).

this is very different to a mortgage, given we (pretty much) all have to pay for housing. If someone was offering me a 4 bed alternative house for free and it would save me the £1,800 a month on our mortgage costs…I’d be quite tempted.

With a household income like that, presumably you had a lot of choice about where to buy your house and I'd be surprised if you didn't think about what the local schools were like.