it's daft to think parents with kids in private school have money to burn?

[Popgoestheweaselagain]

Just got asked by my school what would be the impact if they had to pay VAT, adding 20% to fees. My response was 'I'd try to keep my child in the school, but ....'. I think almost all parents would respond this way. Alarmed, did a quick google, and found this is Labour policy. Next time they come knocking at my door looking for my vote, I'll be telling them why they can't have it!

Now, I understand why some people are ideologically opposed to private schools, the unfariness etc. But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

Well we’ve been paying school fees for the last 12 years and tbh it does feel as if we’ve been throwing money onto a huge bonfire given the results we’ve seen. So yes we had money and we’ve burnt it on school fees.

Yes clearly our democratically politicians have wilfully ignored the education system because they dont care and send their kids to private schools. Under the same logic we shouldnt have private healthcare or private gyms or private housing either. Your logic means that we should have no private housing because that gives politicians the incentive to sort out council housing provision.

Also name an education secretary in the past 20 years that send their kids to private school? I bet there isnt one.

Have no idea why private schools given charitable statues, they should pay VAT you are being unreasonable

If Labour paid you to post this, OP, they're running a very clever campaign.

But OP this is not new news!

One of the many reasons I don’t send my kids to private school is because I knew I needed to anticipate and be able to weather a huge increase in fees. It would be unfair to have to pull them out if I lost my job/VAT added/other reasons. So I never sent them!

Did you not consider this too?

Try thinking of it as where taxes go.

The policy is choosing to tax a luxury choice of education and taxes are used for public services, supporting the vulnerable etc.

If you only ever think about wanting government policies to reduce your tax then you are also wanting fewer public services. That's ok if its your view but they do go hand in hand.

Another point is that you wouldn’t do away with international schools like the French and American schools that exist here so people could use those more. How would you stop people home schooling and using private tutors?

Also, what about the parents at my local state school who drive Ferraris and live in multi million pound homes? We’d be better off if they were rather spending their money on education (less for the government to pay) instead of that money going to expensive car companies in other countries.

The way I look at it, parents who pay for indie schools are paying twice for their kids’ education. Once through taxes in general and then through school fees. These parents will be paying a lot of tax too if they have money for school fees. Many parents will struggle if vat is added and have to send their kids to local state schools. That isn’t going to improve the education budget though is it? All it will do is increase the pressure on an already semi-broken system.

Of course the system isn’t fair, but what is? In a perfect world every child would receive an excellent standard of education - maybe that’s where the focus should be?

Having worked in a private school I assure you there’s more parents that would be impacted by this than not. Certainly where is toked it was done for valid reasons not for the status.

You don't send children to university. They choose whether to go or not.

I don't know if private schools are currently VAT registered (or register-able), but that's how business works, if you are registered, you reclaim VAT on things you buy (thus, don't pay it), but charge it on VATable goods and services.

I suspect that if education becomes a service attracting VAT, then actually, it'll be much further reaching than private schools - every type of training would suddenly become 20% more expensive (surely), which will have a knock on affect on everyone at every level. I don't think it's something to rush into.

How are people focusing on that part, it’s really irrelevant.

Do people want their dc to carry a heavier loan burden if VAT is added?

Do you guys also think private medical care is unfair? I have private medical aid and it is totally unfair. If I get diagnosed with a terrible illness I can see specialists before people who rely on the NHS BUT private healthcare is VAT exempt. Also, by paying for private healthcare I free up space in the NHS.

Healthcare is arguably even more important than education as your education is useless if you’re dead! So you could argue private healthcare is totally unfair and should be abolished.

Private schools are exempt from paying VAT due to some age old law that allows them to PRETEND to be a charitable organisations, which they are clearly not. The money they save not paying VAT, as opposed to other service-providing, non-VAT exempt businesses, as well as the fees they charge, allows these school to provide better environments, better paid teachers, better after school experiences, etc. The policy to stop fee charging, 'private' schools pretending to be charities and to make them pay VAT, is aimed at the businesses/schools themselves, not the parents who pay these fees. By continuing to allowing the private schools to benefit from not having to pay VAT, this perpetuates an us and them, deeply unfair, segregated education system, in which the the children of those who can afford to send their children to private schools, have massively better life chances, compared to those who's parents cannot. The purpose of the policy is to provide more funds for state educated children and level up the education system, so the life chances for all children, something I'm sure you will agree with, becomes more fair. States schools are basically at the mercy of the government and get what they are given. My local primary school will absolutely not be able to afford its heating bill this year, over the last years has had to make teacher redundancies and increases class sizes to over the recommended limit because they get what they are given from the state and it's not enough. Lats year they put out a request for a donation of painting bibs, it's that bad. I'm certain your private school doesn't have that problem and due to getting a free ride and not having to pay VAT on services, as well as the fees they charges. As to how much money you or anyone else who sends their child to private school has, I honestly, no offence, don't care.

I didn't realise this thread would have so many replies! I was just having a bit of a strop over the Labour attitude of looking at fee-paying parents and saying 'Oh, we could get a bit more money out of them'. Whether or not you think it's sensible, or worth it, the fact is the majority of parents stretch themselves financially to afford the fees, or save up for years. They're just not the money trees the rest of society seem to think they are. To solve the financial crisis, look elsewhere!

But I seem to have hit a nerve. Believe me, it was never my intention to rub people's nose in it who can't afford the school or to suggest my kids were too good for the state system. I'm sure they'd have done very well in the state system, I just decided the extras you get in the private sector were worth more to me than the holidays or car or house refurbishments etc. we could have spent the money on. But I'm afraid our budget, and our friend's budgets don't stretch to solving the government's enormous debt problem. We'd have to drop out. Sorry, Labour. Think again!

So do I

Universities are treated as Charities due to their research activities, so tuition fees would not automatically become subject to VAt

Private schools are exempt from paying VAT due to some age old law that allows them to PRETEND to be a charitable organisations, which they are clearly not

Bollocks

Do you understand how bursaries work and are funded, and how many parents have to use bursaries so their children who need LS can stand a chance of getting decent education?

We send our son to private school and definitely dont have "money to burn" in fact I know a lot of people including my own mother who was a teacher in the state system (and worked 3 jobs as a single parent) to send my step sister private!

But I'm afraid our budget, and our friend's budgets don't stretch to solving the government's enormous debt problem. We'd have to drop out. Sorry, Labour. Think again!

Wow, there will be some panic and tears in Millbank Tower when they read that post. Powerful stuff there.

@Popgoestheweaselagain

aye but it’s your choice to send your children to private school and hence use up your money
no one forced you

But is it really worth having to work 3 jobs for? The most important factor in how a child does academically is parental influence.

All of my friends children who went to the local state comp achieved straight As. Now, I realise that there is an argument that average children are the ones who get left behind.

@Popgoestheweaselagain

id rather have the holidays to be fair

life is too short

I am childfree and I don't begrudge it - throughout life I will need educated people younger than me to provide the goods and services I need to get through life.

By the same token, people who educate their children privately will not, as they grow older, rely only on goods and services provided by the labour of other privately educated children.

People might choose to educate their children privately to give them an advantage in life, and that's a choice, but it doesn't mean they don't benefit from state education as a whole. We couldn't function as a society if 95% of people were illiterate because their parents couldn't afford to school them privately.

Many private schools aren’t necessarily the best places for students with additional needs. I saw an example of horrific bullying towards a girl with autism in a girls school that my daughter used to attend. This was upsetting for my daughter because she has siblings with autism. And the staff had no idea how to meet her needs either. I found out via some of the parents in that year that

I completely get that some children really benefit from smaller class sizes but in a lot of fee paying schools, they will hand you an extra bill on top of the first one if additional staff are required for your child specifically.