it's daft to think parents with kids in private school have money to burn?

[Popgoestheweaselagain]

Just got asked by my school what would be the impact if they had to pay VAT, adding 20% to fees. My response was 'I'd try to keep my child in the school, but ....'. I think almost all parents would respond this way. Alarmed, did a quick google, and found this is Labour policy. Next time they come knocking at my door looking for my vote, I'll be telling them why they can't have it!

Now, I understand why some people are ideologically opposed to private schools, the unfariness etc. But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

How are they businesses if they don’t make a profit?

How are they businesses if they don’t make a profit?

So you think all businesses make a profit?

This! Exactly this. It's not the principle I'm objecting to, which people can debate on another thread, if they wish.

So who would you vote for instead? It's not as if the Conservatives have ever done anything in the last 12 years to change the law and improve things.

Interesting. Presumably people will fall into one of 2 camps 1) they pull their kids back into state school, flooding it, and pushing house prices up in the catchments of decent schools (this already happens in my area - the premium for a house in the catchment of the decent school is at least £100k) or 2) they switch spending on other areas to paying the additional school fees, which means the VAT is just getting paid for something different. No additional gain for the government.

It's politics of envy. Everyone getting excited about the idea had better not moan when the class sizes at their schools are huge and/or they can't get into their local school. And I say this as a parent of children at state school.

Idle musing: I wonder as the birth rate drops and we have more people choosing to be child free, a decreasing NHS and pension provision, will there be a revolt against paying a chunk of income tax for someone else’s children to be educated at the taxpayer’s expense?

A non-profit making, charitable business is still a business. The ‘trade’ (i.e the business income) is quite distinct from what it then does with the earned income.

I've got mixed feelings. Most of my thoughts have already been articulated on this thread by other people but overall, when we are in the situation where so many people in this country are reliant on food banks, having to choose between eating and heating their homes over the winter and so on, then I really can't muster a huge amount of sympathy for people who might no longer be able to afford private education.
I know not everyone whose children go to private school is mega rich, and indeed there are some who are not well off at all. I personally know a child of a single parent on a low income who is on a full scholarship at a very well known school. But they are in the minority. The vast majority of families who can afford private education are comparatively well off. There was a thread on here a few days ago called "Being poor is.." or something like that. It brought me to tears. And nobody said "Being poor is...not being able to afford increased independent school fees".

Most private schools are registered charities. A charity can't register for VAT so it can't reclaim VAT on anything it buys which is vatable.

Absolutely not true. www.gov.uk/vat-charities/registration

They are not allowed to make a profit i.e. they cannot have money accumulating in their bank account. They have to demonstrate that revenue is being spent as per the remit of the organisation.

Honestly people are just envious. Pure and simple.

This is a child's response. I find it very telling that so many who have benefited or whose DC benefit from the continued existence of private education assume everyone else must be envious of them. There are many genuine ethical, political and economic questions and arguments to be considered, on both sides of the debate, around private schooling but it's so tempting to take the lazy way out by dismissing others concerns as "envy".

I am privately educated and could afford to do the same for my DC but have made a conscious choice not to. This is partly because of my own experience as a child and partly because it does not align with my values as an adult. I know others who were privately educated who have made the same choice. There is a genuine debate to be had about private education, how it has shaped our most powerful institutions and in particular private schools being granted charitable status. Trying to close down the conversation by declaring critics of the system "jealous" is lazy, churlish and betrays a sense of entitlement.

Although we paid private school fees for DT’s from 4-18, I do think they should have included VAT. There is no reason for them to be exempt. (We chose private schooling as the state schools didn’t provide the education we wanted them to have as trilingual children).

Only 7% of the whole country attend private schools.
They should be abolished. Paying Vat will hopefully be the start of getting rid of these archaic, unjust and morally bankrupt institutions.

Not envious! I actually have two dc in prep currently. Why should private schools get a tax break. They should pay VAT.

LegoFiends · Today 13:35
My children are at private school and I believe that VAT should be imposed and that charitable status should be removed. I also believe my income should be taxed more

Here we go again. You can pay more tax if you so wish. @LegoFiends, are you going to pay more tax now you know it’s possible?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/01/you-can-pay-more-tax-if-you-want-to

If they banned private schools, I'll stay in my current cushy job and go part time. I'll pay so much less tax than if I move for the promotion as planned which I'm only doing to pay private school fees. Not sure my partner would carry on at the rate he is building his business either. As a household we pay a huge amount of tax and that looks to increase over the next year or so. Plus the state will be paying for my kids education. All just seems bonkers. But I do quite fancy working less and spending my money on fun stuff!

Well @Franca123 no one is stopping you from making that move right now!

And every person who works pays tax. It's as if the wealthier members of society are doing everyone an extra special favour to hear the way some posters talk!

Surely that's a risk anyway when you pay for education? At any point the fees can go up, just as with any service. Fee paying schools are businesses first and foremost.

@IndieSchool Idle musing: If birthrates fell significantly there would be noone around to generate the taxes that pay for pension, NHS etc. So really it should be those children revolting at paying for the pension and long term health care of people who didn't want to contribute to their education.

What's the VAT on electricity and gas? 5%? Those arguing that other people are really poor and school fees are an extravagance, how about this: I can afford to heat my house so given the arguments above, are you going to shout and scream that people that can afford to do that can pay 20% VAT too? Afterall, it's my choice, I could freeze or put blankets on.

The school doesn't pay the VAT. The school charges whatever it needs to to provide the educational standard that makes it worth paying for in the first place. It then adds 20% VAT to the bill, which goes to the government in tax - ie. not back into the school towards the education of your own child or to pay for bursaries etc. So, you pay tax, pay for your child to go to a non-government school, then pay tax again for the privilege of paying for your child's education.

It would certainly have changed my decision about when/if to put my child into private school. Would add around £3000 per child to the cost, with no improvement in service.

But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

But you had enough surplus cash to spend on private schooling, which is expensive, so you had x more than people who can't afford it full stop. And if you have enough money to countenance spending a proportion on private schooling, isn't it probable there would be economies equivalent to 20% of the schooling costs to be made in your other spending? I'm sure it feels like a lot and you don't want to pay it willingly. But you have choices that a great many others don't.

Yes I see your point but I’m talking about the 20-50 year child free people who pay for medical care, don’t have children and won’t have any state pension to speak of. They must be wondering why they are putting in for other people’s children’s state education too and be delighted when some people choose to go private.

They would just become more elite. A number would shut down. It’d create an even more elite pool of children/adults completely dividing society further.

You are really comparing heating your home with private education when free state education is available?

And even if you want to make that comparison, it's still comparing apples with pears. It would be more like saying should you expect a tax exemption on insisting on heating yourself with a private battery operated heater in a public place already heated for free by the state.... or something.