it's daft to think parents with kids in private school have money to burn?

[Popgoestheweaselagain]

Just got asked by my school what would be the impact if they had to pay VAT, adding 20% to fees. My response was 'I'd try to keep my child in the school, but ....'. I think almost all parents would respond this way. Alarmed, did a quick google, and found this is Labour policy. Next time they come knocking at my door looking for my vote, I'll be telling them why they can't have it!

Now, I understand why some people are ideologically opposed to private schools, the unfariness etc. But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

I have not RTFT yet, but way back @QuinkWashable said that "businesses don't pay VAT". Of course they do! (Or HMRC owes my business some serious money...)

Agree they should be vat registered. They are private businesses making profits. Why shouldn't they be?

State schools are most definitely not shit for not NT children. My DS is thriving. He has one 1:1 after school session on maths a week, one 1:2 on English - both paid for by the school. He has lunchtime SEND clubs that he can attend, and the school is all over things like compensatory arrangements for exams and are already monitoring him for these - even though the exams are years away.
Meanwhile, a friend of mine's DD had to take a gap year because her daughter's (private, selective) school forgot about her Oxbridge interest and the early UCAS deadline. State school are under the white-hot lens of OFSTED, their targets for SEND students are aspirational, and they put in place a plethora of provisions to try to meet them.
Another friend of mine taught in a private school and had to put up with a celebrity daughter rolling up and smoking on the Tube, because, "What is the school going to do about it?"

The couple i know who educated kids privately do have money to burn...both work for a foreign govt here in the uk....earn millions....trading oil etc...own many luxury properties here and abroad....own 10 holiday lets alone in cornwall....!!

Both me and my sister were sent to private school while my parents are well off now through hard work they weren’t when we were young and we went at the insistence of my grandmother at her cost. So I never assume private school means lots of money to burn as it deffo wasn’t the case for us and we found ourself quite different to other kids

Well if my DC’s independent school loses it’s charitable status it will stop sponsoring the state primary that it’s turned around from ‘failing’ to ‘outstanding’ and it won’t sponsor another state primary in the near future as planned. It will no longer continue to support vulnerable members of the community (including the elderly, children and adults with learning disabilities). There will be no more bursaries for low income families - including Ukrainian refugees.

People should not insist on VAT being paid when they have no idea of what some private schools are contributing.

Private schools are businesses which some people choose to send their kid to in hope of getting a better education. It should be taxed.

The only reason they maintain their 'charitable' status is because they 'help' state schools. Offering an occasional workshop, or to send some kids along to an author visit or my favorite to 'be the audience for a debate.' They should either exist as businesses and pay VAT or be done away with.

What a really insensitive and goady post.

Continue to vote Tory OP and ruin this country completely.

Whilst you are worrying about 20% on your school fees, I'm working with a 5.4 million reduction ( on top of reduction on reduction over the years) in funding to our Children’s Services - you know....childrens social care for those that are really vulnerable, school transport and schools.

There will be nothing left....

I think the question being asked is, if VAT was chargeable on school fees, would a lot of parents currently sending their DC to private schools be priced out of it? If so the answer is probably yes, a reasonable number would no longer be able to afford it. So on that basis YANBU (but the phrase "having money to burn" doesn't really convey your point very well).

I think you've got that wrong! Maybe 3.5k per term, not month. We pay 1.5k a month in London.

They already pay VAT.

Income - still plenty of taxable opportunities. Non-term time accommodation for eg, either opted to tax, or where akin to hotels (automatically standard rated). Sports lettings only exempt in specific circumstances - many use subs to deliberately make things taxable, or make them taxable interests in land (rather than sport) where supplying to an entity that can reclaim VAT. Even catering supplied to staff should be taxable.

Costs - 5% fuel where eligible, 0% for some building works. Other specific reliefs.

I know where the exemption for private schools comes from - unless state-funded/non-business, they need to be ‘eligible bodies’ within Sch 9 Group 6 VAT Act 1994. This essentially comes from charitable status.

(I have massively oversimplified here, it is a highly complex and much litigated area of tax law.)

I'm a single mum with a ds on an academic scholarship at an independent school. I pay half fees which is a massive stretch for me already. I certainly don't have any money to spare at all.

The father of one of his friends drives a shiny new Maserati, so I guess he does.

As with all things, it varies.

@earsup one couple that you know. Maybe if your kids went to private school you would understand that there are loads of families who are not super rich. Doctors, nurses, paramedics, teachers, social workers….they all feature at my DC’s school.

Why stripped of charitable status? If all privately educated children ended up in the state system due to massive fee increases, that would be a bigger burden on the state, surely, with people who can afford to pay their way getting something free instead. I don't see why that would be more desirable.

Won't you pay VAT on those things? You certainly do on cars and I imagine you do on most weddings things, dresses/catering etc.

I don't want to ban anything but if you are charged VAT on goods and services then why not on schools?

If you have kids in private school, your taxes still go to contribute to state schools but then you are also paying to not have the state pay for your kids to be in school. You are also paying for thousands of people employed in the private sector. It’s not very hard to understand.

Also, the majority of private schools are charities not businesses. They are not profit making. Also not hard to understand.

I wasn't being entirely serious, but it would be a dissolution of the private sector. Call it integration if you wish.

I don't understand the point of pricing parents out of private schools. Where do they think all those parents who can no longer afford school fees are going to send their kids? Our state schools are underfunded, and in many cases overcrowded, as it is.

Even if the full extra 20% paid by those who stayed in independent schools went towards education (which it wouldn't) I still think that the amount available per pupil would drop.

@robertpaulson Private schools are a little bit of a stigma these days, it's almost embarassing to admit you went to one. It is essentially paying to put your child at an advantage to poorer children. I find that completely immoral. Your child is either clever or not, there's not much a private school can do for the latter. It does teach a certain smarmy sort of arrogance however which seems to be exclusive to private school kids.

If a private school can't do much to help a kid who isn't inherently clever, then why would it put them at an immoral advantage?

Private education is a luxury.

Always always it's this argument that PS parents make to feel less guilty about the fact that they pay for their children to have more advantages than children in state schools. It's absolute bollocks. The state system could easily expand to accommodate your little darlings.

You sound like you think your children have an inherent entitlement to a private education regardless of your ability to pay, whereas other children from families poorer than you don't.

Why do you feel that way?

Also, the majority of private schools are charities not businesses

Bless.

Anyway, most of them are being royally fucked because they can't afford to pay the teachers' pensions. About time the leeches on the system are called on this.