it's daft to think parents with kids in private school have money to burn?

[Popgoestheweaselagain]

Just got asked by my school what would be the impact if they had to pay VAT, adding 20% to fees. My response was 'I'd try to keep my child in the school, but ....'. I think almost all parents would respond this way. Alarmed, did a quick google, and found this is Labour policy. Next time they come knocking at my door looking for my vote, I'll be telling them why they can't have it!

Now, I understand why some people are ideologically opposed to private schools, the unfariness etc. But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

Don't have money to burn. Already burnt it. (Literally, given the current rise in heating bills!)

Exactly, we all want the best for our kids.

If VAT were added in some scholls it may be possible to remove all bursaries and making grounds available to the poor and that kind of thing (as no charitable status), reclaim VAT spent eg on building works so possibly those benefits flowing from loss of charitable status might mean fees could stay the same. I have not however done the sums.

Secondly it would be complex. If "educational purposes" is removed from charity law then I presume everything educational would go - so no charitable status for a vast raft of things outside private schools that are education?

Maybe if the wealthy and articulate couldn't get their kids into private school they would do more to help improve the state schools. I feel the same about medicine, if Liz Truss didn't know she could pay for private health care she'd have more incentive to improve the system.

@TheClogLady
Another agreeing that SEN provision can be better in the private sector.

Schools are underfunded and have huge SEMH issues post covid. I work for a children's charity.

OP I paid for private schooling at different times for my DC. I think if the school charged vat they would freeze fees.
In 2008 my son's class lost 5 out of 12 pupils. One local school closed.
I am also going to say I went to a sink school but have two Oxford degrees. I wanted more. Not sure how possible that is anymore with 51% of people applying to university. I think in the early 1980s it was 21%.(not sure of the exact stats).

Sports lettings a by an educational charity are usually exempt from VAT.

Charitable exemptions don’t apply to cost incurred by schools much. The main costs schools have are teachers salaries.

school fees are exempt due to the charitable status they have. Labour are saying that private schools don’t do enough charitable works to classify as a charity, their stays ought to be stripped. The effect of this would be that VAT would be applied to fees. I don’t see why this is unreasonable. Private school’s curtails works are minimal.

And I meant to add this is yet another good reason to vote Conservative at the next election.

My next task should be to see if Labour will in effect confiscate my house because I chose to leave all family and leave the NE for London to look for work so presumably Labour would charge me £20k a year to stay in my house.

Bullshit. I pay a lot less than that and I'm just a single/lone parent with a decent job.

My kid is ND so I had no choice, state schools are crap for kids who aren't NT.

This

I think the government would be shooting themselves in the foot with this one. If a 20% hike in fees mean many families can no longer afford private schools, those children have to go somewhere ie to state schools. Then everyone is worse off - the government have to fund more school places for the kids whose parents can no longer afford private schools…. And state schools become even more stretched.

I think this is a great idea, charge vat and pass the money on to state schools..

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen sums up very well with this: But it bears repeating that there will likely be another family whose children are still going to that poor state school you describe, still experiencing racism from teachers and pupils, whose parents with the best will in the world can't afford to pay the fees or the transport costs to 'save' their kids from it. So all your special pleading does is highlight the fact private school is not fair. The answer isn't for those families who can stretch to it to abandon the state system, as that still leaves the families who can't in the shit. The answer is to reform education to prevent the inequality.

I know quite a few people who have tried the state system and found it's not working for their child for one reason or another and switched to private. On a personal level, I'm glad they've been able to do that. But those people never seem to acknowledge that there are people facing similar problems who just won't have that option. On a systemic level, it's a problem. And therefore I believe it isn't fair to have tax breaks etc for private education.

(My kids go to state school. Our finances are such that we could afford to move one - or at a push all of them - into private education, though at considerable cost to the rest of our lifestyle. I'm adding this because I think it's definitely one of those arguments where your personal circumstances heavily influence your wider views.)

A private school close in my town a couple of years ago. It's just reopened as a new state primary which the town badly needed.

Theoretically, yes.

But it’s a bit like the NHS 18 week waiting lists, a promise that the services fail to adhere to.

SEND kids of secondary age are particularly affected by lack of a school place (mainstream schools can reject them and special school provision is extremely limited) and if you move into an area and there are no vacancies you either have to wait for someone to move out or take an out of area place (if there are any).

Some years have a birthrate spike - 2012 was the highest rate in the 2000-2020 two decade period so the upcoming secondary allocations might result in a proper bun fight!

Closed not close.

Private schools price out a certain number of people
Adding VAT prices out a certain number of people

you would become one of those people thats all- why does the latter idea seem more unjust than the former?- because now it includes you

Blair recognised that to win you needed to be centre ground. Doing this plus the 'TWAW' stance is really not going to win them votes.

Standing on picket lines when they are in opposition might be something they feel they can do now but what if they are in government. Its all very well saying we would sit down with the unions and resolve. Really - its that easy is it??

Absolutely typical of a selfish well off Tory voter who either doesn't know (and doesn't want to know) and doesn't care what life is like for the increasing numbers of people who genuinely gave no money.

We have a child at private school and don’t have ‘money to burn’. We have a household income of about £40k after tax, but have paid off the mortgage on our (small, semidetached house) through years of hard work and saving. My child’s at private school as they are autistic, and all state secondary schools in our area are huge and she just wouldn’t have coped - her main issues are with noise and crowds and social stuff. Things were pretty hard at her (state) primary. So far, a very small nurturing school with small class sizes is working really well (she only started a few weeks ago). An inheritance from a family member will cover about 2 years’ school fees, and we’re just being super careful with money for the rest of it. The other week a mum friend really annoyed me as she was going on about how lucky we are to be able to afford private school. Yes, we are lucky, so many don’t even vaguely have the option. But she bought a house recently that was on the market for £700k. I have barely any pension, work my socks off, and am still paying taxes towards state education but not using her place. I am incredibly grateful though that we are in a fortunate enough position to stretch to it.

It would cost me approx an extra 10k a year. Which I would do but kiss goodbye to upgrading the kitchen, the car, my wardrobe, going out (you know, spending in the economy where people have businesses) etc.

The likes of Eton would still exist and I’d strongly be discouraging my eldest from medicine when he can use those maths and science skills making money elsewhere despite his deep desire to make other people’s lives better 🤷🏼‍♀️

Some parents won’t manage or won’t sign up so you’ll get a race to the bottom and an increase in the war over property near the grammar and naice comps.

A good few of those will be families like mine, with kids that struggled in big environments and might have needed lots of intervention (read: taxpayers money at a state school)

Well done Labour, you’ll just increase social division and make it impossible for a poor child to go to the school they want 🤨. Except you won’t be able to blame it on “The Rich”. It will be absolutely, 100% Labour’s fault that the hardworking, bright, poor kid is at the sink school with the demoralised teachers because there are no places at the better schools packed with kids with parents who could afford a house in the right postcode.

Welcome to the NextGen Conservative Voters.

I don’t even think they need this stuff anymore anyway to win.

Just go with the positive policies that don’t tear stuff down so people feel briefly better about taking other dc out of private

Well why should they have charitable status? How are they a charity? They should be paying VAT.

Are you seriously comparing the dissolution of the monasteries with a policy to integrate private schools into the state sector? That's hilarious.

Sorry, but I agree with this.
It's a luxury to be able to send your kids to private school, it's not a necessity.

The more comparatively wealthy people feel forced to send their children to state schools, the more quickly those state schools will improve.