Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you report both of these staff members

65 replies

Hca8 · 28/09/2022 13:06

I’ve recently started work on an acute female ward as a hca. Yesterday night a young woman engaged in a dangerous form of self harm. The alarm was pulled and staff responded. The young woman is on 15 minutes checks. The first staff member said she takes advantage of the fact she’s on 15 minute checks she likes the attention. I’ve found this young woman engaging in the same behaviours on hourly checks so it’s not too so with her level of observation clearly. The second staff member replied to this woman and said he careful what your saying. I would take this to mean the other staff member could say it behind the patients back but not in front of her as he knows she makes complaints. Doi report both of them to our line manager or just her?

OP posts:
Brefugee · 28/09/2022 14:25

I'm finding it quite difficult to understand what happened. Did she overhear them?

in any case - keep your nose out and see what the dynamics of this workplace are. You never know - they might be right in their assessment.

AirFryerNinja · 28/09/2022 14:25

MissHavershamReturns · 28/09/2022 14:23

I think op is saying the original remark WAS in front of the patient (bedroom:en-suite). Remark 2 was said away from the patient

Ops fourth post says she didn't say it to her face, as in in front of her.
But she had by post eight.
Needs to go in file 13. That's the bin with the rest of the rubbish.

Gizmo79 · 28/09/2022 14:27

If that is as bad as you have heard yet to date, I am very surprised. I have heard far worse about MH patients as staff need to vent, especially after being in some situations.
if you came to me to report them, I would not take any action beyond having a chat with the staff involved.
you need to grow up a bit.

Brefugee · 28/09/2022 14:29

Needs to go in file 13.

haven't heard that in a long time Grin

LatteLady · 28/09/2022 14:36

Having read the whole thread, including the OP updates, it sounds like HCA 1 vented and HCA 2 dealt with that behaviour, so for me that would be case closed. OP, you have said that you have seen HCA1 being empathetic which is a positive. I would leave it at this point and raise it if something recurs.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 28/09/2022 14:46

Hca8 · 28/09/2022 13:56

The member of staff was from a different ward she doesn’t work on my ward so doesn’t really know the woman.

How was it in front of her when the other staff member isn't on the same ward?

Sandysandwich · 28/09/2022 14:56

Whatever you are going to do about the 1st person, the second one really did nothing wrong so don't drag her into it. Telling someone to be careful what they are saying is not the same as suggesting that its fine to be rude about them out of earshot

stillvicarinatutu · 28/09/2022 14:58

Hca8 · 28/09/2022 13:36

She didn’t say it her face she said it to another staff member about her. Two to me was just saying don’t say it in front of her but feel free to say it not in front of her. I would have said please don’t make comments like that about vulnerable patients

You E not been doing that job very long have you .....

Give it 5 years .

MajorCarolDanvers · 28/09/2022 15:08

Hca8 · 28/09/2022 13:11

i believe the comments made the young woman worse and it pains me to see people who have been through trauma being made to feel bad by people who are meant to care for them

Yes report them

When people start crossing the line it's a slippery slope to worse things.

And bad things happen when good people stay silent.

You know it's wrong or you wouldn't have posted. Trust your gut.

orchiopera · 28/09/2022 15:16

And this is what contributed to toxicity in the NHS. Staff reporting other colleagues for nothing. There's nothing to report OP.

orchiopera · 28/09/2022 15:18

chezpopbang · 28/09/2022 14:10

Please don't take advice from MN who know nothing. There are people within this setting you can get actual advice from. Please speak with your manager and occupational health. As someone who works in this field I don't feel these comments are appropriate to say in front of a patient but might not warrant a full on complaint. Please explain to your manager your aren't sure if the comments are correct so you wanted her advice before raising it further. Please ensure you don't discuss this with other members of staff because it could get you in trouble. Especially If these comments were made by more senior staff.

What's occupational health got to do with it? You do know what occupation health is right? It's naff all to do with patient care.

FurryDandelionSeekingMissile · 28/09/2022 15:21

I don't think OP is changing her story, it's just that the slightly different meanings of phrases like "to her face" vs "in front of her" vs "in her hearing", and the different ways people interpret these types of phrases, have resulted in some confusion.

From what I can make out, though please correct me if I've got this wrong, OP:

OP, staff member 1, and staff member 2 were talking together.

The patient who had just self-harmed wasn't part of the conversation but was nearby where she would probably be able to hear what was said.

SM1 said the patient was attention-seeking, which OP interpreted as a derogatory or at least unhelpful remark, rather than purely an objective clinical analysis.

SM2 told SM1 to be careful what she was saying, and OP interpreted that as a warning not to say these things in front of the patient, but not as disapproval of the comment itself.

OP was there and we weren't, so while her interpretations might be wrong, it could be she's in a better position than we are to interpret intention and underlying meaning, because she can incorporate tone of voice, facial expressions, the rest of the conversation, the characters of the other staff members, the ward staff culture, and so on.

If staff members are describing a patient who has just self-harmed as being attention-seeking in a dismissive or derogatory way, somewhere that the patient can hear, that's not just professionals being accurate about patients' motivations or making neutral and astute observations. It's more like trying to make the patient feel that they're not going to get one over on these staff. Whether it's technically correct or not, the term attention-seeking has incredibly negative connotations. There are better ways to talk with people about the function of their self-harming behaviour and the needs it helps them fulfil, and better times to do it. You wouldn't call someone an attention-seeker where they could hear unless you wanted them to know you thought badly of them.

I've been a patient on several psychiatric wards and I've seen how different the staff culture can be on different wards, and how much it affects patients and influences patient behaviour. I've seen how staff steeped in a particular ward culture can perpetuate that culture in newer staff, either by normalising certain behaviour and teaching how things are done there (explicitly or by example), or causing staff who don't fit in to go elsewhere.

That ward staff culture can be one of respect and understanding for the patients, calmness, sometimes kindness, de-escalation, fairness, integrity, and so on, or it can be one of favouritism, arse-covering, knee-jerk escalation, disrespect, etc. — or something in-between, or something different.

If OP has moved from a ward with one type of staff culture to a ward with a different type of staff culture, my guess would be that it's probably not just this one conversation that's prompted this post, more like lots of little things and the whole atmosphere on the ward, with this as a definite thing she can point at.

HappyHamsters · 28/09/2022 15:23

If the staff member who made the comment was from another ward then you could speak to the staff nurse but I doubt there is much to investiagte, she could be told to be more aware but you may never see her again anyway if she was just helping out by responsing to an emergency bell. . But hca2 dealt with it which is good.. perhaps when you have settled in and have your first appraisal you could discuss mental health awareness training as you have had experience.

FurryDandelionSeekingMissile · 28/09/2022 15:31

Oh, and if it's a ward staff culture difference thing, then I wouldn't bother reporting. You'll only paint a target on your back. Newbies who try to challenge ward culture don't succeed.

If it's not a ward staff culture difference thing, and this is the only time you've heard staff talk like this, then I wouldn't bother reporting either — the overall staff culture is what makes a difference, and social pressure from other staff will do the job better than any report.

AlwaysTheBrideNeverTheBridesmaid · 28/09/2022 15:42

Wow, if they said that this patient was 'attention seeking' in such a way that the other staff member had to actually reprimand them then yeah, personally I would report that. That's a shockingly poor level of professionalism and care. Please be the person who escalates this.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page