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AIBU?

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Original poster

Will they do a U turn on tax cuts?

35 replies

ZenNudist · 27/09/2022 21:53

Surely they've got to? It's such a bloody mess. It's going to cost a fortune in increased borrowing costs on government debt given increases in bond yields.

Let alone the massive repercussions of Sterling tanking.

YANBU - The government will u turn and save us from their fuck up

YABU - nope we're screwed (unless you're rich)

OP posts:
lannistunut · 27/09/2022 22:00

The noises are still that no u-turn is coming - twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1574834028229922830, but also some talk that Kwarteng will have to resign in the end.

It is a massive, massive fuck-up and I am really angry this has been dumped on us all by a woman who was chosen by such a small group of people Angry

SpringCalling · 27/09/2022 22:03

We (and the media) have become so used to u-turns we're all expecting it. But I don't think they will. This lot aren't going to be swayed by outcry like Boris was.

sst1234 · 27/09/2022 22:06

It might be strategic to get the difficult policies in first, like the ones from last week. As long before the election as possible. Then bring other policies which are actually more focused on growth.

The tax cuts alone won’t do the trick. The rest of the policies have to follow.

Perfect28 · 27/09/2022 22:06

They are much more likely, imo, to massively reduce public spending. I'm not quite sure how, or from where, considering everything is already in tatters.

lannistunut · 27/09/2022 22:18

I agree there are more horrendous policies to follow - ripping up planning rules, cuts to public services, scrapping workers' rights. It is going to be grim.

sarahfin · 27/09/2022 22:19

No, it’s very unlikely that they will change their minds here. Tories all the same, all for one.

Dannexe · 27/09/2022 22:21

lannistunut · 27/09/2022 22:18

I agree there are more horrendous policies to follow - ripping up planning rules, cuts to public services, scrapping workers' rights. It is going to be grim.

The bill on reversing eu legislation is certainly going to have an interesting effect on employment law if passed. Tupe protection, working time regulations, fixed term worker legislation. The list goes on and on..

Original poster
ZenNudist · 27/09/2022 22:26

The idea of cutting public services which are already pared back to the bone to fund tax cuts for the rich is a hideous one. Surely they realise this is electoral suicide. Or are they relying on a combination of factors to deliver a tory government: voter apathy, split votes between green/libs/labour plus Scotland mainly voting SNP.

OP posts:
Celticandco · 27/09/2022 22:28

Brexit innit

I'm despairing btw

Desmorelda · 27/09/2022 22:44

Around 570 laws governing environmental issues such as water quality, air quality, habitat protections and agricultural rules such as the use of pesticides could be scrapped - who knows ? Wait till they scrap maternity leave for small businesses, holiday pay... It's a bonfire bonanza of your earnings and working rights.
And as deregulation of standards continues, it will become increasingly difficult for the UK to achieve third-country to the EU status.

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 27/09/2022 22:53

Yabu. Truss and Kwarteng literally wrote a book outlining all this around the time of the referendum. Brexit was phase 1. This is phase 2. Why would they stop now - it is what they have been working towards for years and what the majority knowingly voted for.

lannistunut · 27/09/2022 22:53

ZenNudist · 27/09/2022 22:26

The idea of cutting public services which are already pared back to the bone to fund tax cuts for the rich is a hideous one. Surely they realise this is electoral suicide. Or are they relying on a combination of factors to deliver a tory government: voter apathy, split votes between green/libs/labour plus Scotland mainly voting SNP.

twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1574867846462685190

Truss did say she was willing to be unpopular.

MintJulia · 27/09/2022 22:57

If they don't u-turn, they'll be in opposition for a decade.

I can't believe they could be so blindingly stupid. Truss & Kwarteng will be personally responsible for a five year recession. Neither is fit to have charge of the petty cash. 🙁

gnilliwdog · 27/09/2022 22:58

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 27/09/2022 22:53

Yabu. Truss and Kwarteng literally wrote a book outlining all this around the time of the referendum. Brexit was phase 1. This is phase 2. Why would they stop now - it is what they have been working towards for years and what the majority knowingly voted for.

Was that Britannia unchained? I think the idea was to pare back the welfare state to the absolute minimum and allow unregulated markets to take over. So, they would privatise the NHS, eliminate benefits, sell councils off to private investors, that kind of thing.

Questionaboutjoboffer · 27/09/2022 23:02

What happens to those who need benefits to survive in their shit Britannia unchained future?

And people who can’t afford private medical care?

Surely a majority of MPs are not going to vote all of this through Sad?

lannistunut · 27/09/2022 23:02

Moody's have now downgraded growth predictions for 2023 following the mini budget, not sure whether to laugh or cry at that! twitter.com/MehreenKhn/status/1574879376801497089

Blossomtoes · 27/09/2022 23:05

It is what they have been working towards for years and what the majority knowingly voted for.

Nobody knowingly voted for this. You really think there’s wide readership of Britannia Unchained?

gnilliwdog · 27/09/2022 23:08

Questionaboutjoboffer · 27/09/2022 23:02

What happens to those who need benefits to survive in their shit Britannia unchained future?

And people who can’t afford private medical care?

Surely a majority of MPs are not going to vote all of this through Sad?

I haven't read the book, but I think the ethos was that you have to contribute to get benefits at all. I think Kwarteng is making universal credit more difficult, in that you have to work more hours to receive the light touch treatment i.e. not be harrassed and sanctioned. The final vision may be that to receive universal credit you have to work full time for a pittance. I imagine health insurance will be compulsory, perhaps deducted from wages, and the quality will depend on how much you can pay.

lannistunut · 27/09/2022 23:11

The final vision may be that to receive universal credit you have to work full time for a pittance. I imagine health insurance will be compulsory, perhaps deducted from wages, and the quality will depend on how much you can pay. None of these things will bring any growth, they will lead to a shrinking economy.

Bunnyfuller · 27/09/2022 23:12

It’s only just begun…

TheHateIsNotGood · 27/09/2022 23:12

It's called a Mini-Budget so they can U-Turn in the Proper 2023 Budget if needed. It's a gamble for Truss&Co at the mo, and a pretty brave move as it's completely expected for most things to completely tank immediately, mostly due to the shock of it.

I'm a bit of a poor bastard me, but think this risky move is worth trying - if it doesn't work then U-Turn next March, whilst making any necessary adjustments beforehand.

gnilliwdog · 27/09/2022 23:24

lannistunut · 27/09/2022 23:11

The final vision may be that to receive universal credit you have to work full time for a pittance. I imagine health insurance will be compulsory, perhaps deducted from wages, and the quality will depend on how much you can pay. None of these things will bring any growth, they will lead to a shrinking economy.

I can't say I understand their thinking. I suppose there are not that many on universal credit. A scheme where they have to work full time for very low wages would be a dream for businesses and increase their profits. Private health insurance would create money for those companies and their employees. Obviously, if you can't afford healthcare, they could bring in a euthanasia option for a flat fee, or they could open up an unregulated organ selling market, perhaps. Both of which would create business and money-making opportunities. There is also the scheme of selling cities to foreign investors, or smart cities I think they are called.

lannistunut · 27/09/2022 23:27

TheHateIsNotGood · 27/09/2022 23:12

It's called a Mini-Budget so they can U-Turn in the Proper 2023 Budget if needed. It's a gamble for Truss&Co at the mo, and a pretty brave move as it's completely expected for most things to completely tank immediately, mostly due to the shock of it.

I'm a bit of a poor bastard me, but think this risky move is worth trying - if it doesn't work then U-Turn next March, whilst making any necessary adjustments beforehand.

We can't afford to wait until March, the damage done in just four days is enormous. It has already cost us £500 Billion...

HeddaGarbled · 27/09/2022 23:31

The BBC financial editor reckons it’ll be watered down massively once the OBR analysis is made public. 23rd November, I think he was saying.

donquixotedelamancha · 27/09/2022 23:33

sst1234 · 27/09/2022 22:06

It might be strategic to get the difficult policies in first, like the ones from last week. As long before the election as possible. Then bring other policies which are actually more focused on growth.

The tax cuts alone won’t do the trick. The rest of the policies have to follow.

The problem is that those tax cuts leave no room for investment because the debt is growing too fast.

I think they genuinely believe that cutting taxes for the rich and cutting investment to fund it will promote growth and didn't bother to ask any economist whether that might have been tried before.

Presumably they were all absent for that lesson in Y9 about the causes of the great depression.