Page 3 | Black Monday anyone? The tories should be in jail - part 2

DirectionToPerfection · 28/09/2022 11:01

Dotjones · 28/09/2022 10:41

YABU - give her a chance the Tories are our future!
YANBU - time for a change anyone but the Tories thankyou.

The trouble with that is that you can think the Tories are shit but not believe that "anyone" else would be better. That's the logic that has led to Truss being in charge, people hounding BoJo out of office because "anyone" else would be better than him. That's what led to May being forced out, because "anyone" else would have been better.

Just because the present group in charge is unbelievably terrible doesn't automatically mean that their is a better option - it certainly doesn't believe that every other choice is better.

I can't vote in this AIBU poll because it's basically a choice between saying the Tories are great or saying you'd prefer to see a more far right version of the BNP running concentration camps and committing genocide.

I don't think either POV is right, but each to their own.

It's pretty clear that there's only one viable alternative and they are behaving like the grown ups in the room.

potniatheron · 28/09/2022 13:11

scaredoff · 27/09/2022 21:54

@potniatheron

(on other thread)

as per my post the West is on a gradual downward trajectory so when I vote I do it not on the basis of who's got the big ideas, because none of the mainstream parties do, just on the basis of who looks the most vaguely competent. Kier Starmer looks vaguely competent and will hopefully be able to encourage his front bench to at least pretend to vague competency, so I'll probably vote for him. I think we could do with a change no matter how cosmetic, may as well give the other lot a go.

Do you think there IS a "big idea" that could reverse that downward trajectory, it's just that none of the major parties have thought of it or are willing to admit it? Or do you think they don't have it because no such idea exists, and the downward trajectory is inevitable?

Yes I do, the big idea would be to start producing things again rather than relying on service industries, which are incredibly low productivity.

The ship has probably sailed on manufacturing as we have lost the skills, same with civil engineering, a lot of the skills we had 50 years ago have been lost. the nuclear power sector specifically struggles with this: there are just not enough nuclear civil engineers with a high stand of knowledge and ability in this country.

However we have a great record in pharma and related sciences, we are still world class, we should be pouring investment into these skills so that we can export more, lead the world in more areas. This will raise producivity, high paying jobs, educational standards, etc etc. Leave us less vulnerable to China.

It will take a generation or two to play through but it would be worth it rather than pushing paper for each other with ever diminishing returns.

RagzRebooted · 28/09/2022 13:20

So the BOE is saving us by buying government debts or something. Isn't that just printing money/quantitative easing? Won't that make inflation worse?

pattihews · 28/09/2022 13:46

I'd very happily vote Labour at the next GE, as I have at every election since I turned 18 last century — just as long as they drop the gender ideology and admit the reality of biology. I'm a feminist. I won't vote for a party that tells women if a man feels he's a woman he is. Replacing the material reality of sex with gender is misogynistic and homophobic and the fact that Labour can't see that is an absolute tragedy. A party that denies something as fundamental as biology — which has determined women's lives since time immemorial — can't be trusted. I'm not alone, there are many, many of us who were once Labour members and voters who will not vote for them while they hold this position.

Original poster

vera99 · 28/09/2022 14:30

RagzRebooted · 28/09/2022 13:20

So the BOE is saving us by buying government debts or something. Isn't that just printing money/quantitative easing? Won't that make inflation worse?

Yes, no one will buy our debt so we 'buy' it back ourselves by jiggapokery at the Central Bank. I'd hazard a guess the UK will be the epicentre of a global crash that will usher in Great Depression 2.

That market turmoil heaped pressure on pension funds to sell bonds to stave off concerns about solvency. Thousands of such groups had faced urgent demands for additional cash from investment managers to meet margin calls after the collapse in UK government bond prices blew a hole in strategies to protect them against inflation and interest-rate risks.

The BoE said its action was designed to restore order. “The Bank will carry out temporary purchases of long-dated UK government bonds from 28 September,” it said. “The purchases will be carried out on whatever scale is necessary to effect this

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AutumnCrow · 28/09/2022 14:51

pattihews · 28/09/2022 13:46

I'd very happily vote Labour at the next GE, as I have at every election since I turned 18 last century — just as long as they drop the gender ideology and admit the reality of biology. I'm a feminist. I won't vote for a party that tells women if a man feels he's a woman he is. Replacing the material reality of sex with gender is misogynistic and homophobic and the fact that Labour can't see that is an absolute tragedy. A party that denies something as fundamental as biology — which has determined women's lives since time immemorial — can't be trusted. I'm not alone, there are many, many of us who were once Labour members and voters who will not vote for them while they hold this position.

The denial of biology just makes them sound so fucking stupid, doesn't it? Keir Starmer sounded excellent yesterday, real Prime Minister material. Why oh why would he blow that gain by carrying on saying anti-science things that he must know make him sound like an absolute fool?

Why can't he say, 'the Tories have also presided over this other really dangerous thing - the denial of biology - and we're going to stop that as well'? Such an easy win.

User135644 · 28/09/2022 14:54

Never underestimate the English love for the Tories. Stockholm syndrome doesnt cover it.

Original poster

vera99 · 28/09/2022 15:20

The blood is up more regicide being planned by the flag-shagging Tories. If any of these halfwits had an ounce of public decency they would call a GE and put it to the people. They as much as any fundamentals are the problem and they are destroying us.

www.ft.com/content/a46e53bb-e23d-4450-a70e-05f71d2e57ef

Some claimed that Liz Truss, prime minister, is trying to distance herself from Kwarteng’s economic strategy, even though she was instrumental in devising the plan of debt-funded tax cuts worth £45bn.

Truss has not made a public statement since the markets delivered a vicious verdict on her government’s economic plan released on Friday. There have been tensions between her and Kwarteng on how to respond to the tumult.

One former cabinet minister told the Financial Times: “I think he’s dead but in the Tory party death can take many forms. It can take a long time. There’s a political vacuum.”

Another Tory MP, a member of the government, said: “Liz has a pretty quick choice to make: either she bullets her chancellor and changes course or she could lose her premiership within a month.

“She will struggle to get any legislation through parliament unless she changes course because we won’t vote for it. We won’t ever get to vote on this package because the markets will destroy it first.”

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Blossomtoes · 28/09/2022 15:25

pattihews · 28/09/2022 13:46

I'd very happily vote Labour at the next GE, as I have at every election since I turned 18 last century — just as long as they drop the gender ideology and admit the reality of biology. I'm a feminist. I won't vote for a party that tells women if a man feels he's a woman he is. Replacing the material reality of sex with gender is misogynistic and homophobic and the fact that Labour can't see that is an absolute tragedy. A party that denies something as fundamental as biology — which has determined women's lives since time immemorial — can't be trusted. I'm not alone, there are many, many of us who were once Labour members and voters who will not vote for them while they hold this position.

there are many, many of us who were once Labour members and voters who will not vote for them while they hold this position.

There’s a tiny, tiny minority of you because some of us recognise that if you can’t eat or keep a roof over your head the government “knowing what a woman is” is way down your list of priorities.

Incidentally Starmer and Braverman both interpret the 2010 Equalities Act in exactly the same way, while the GRA was produced by May’s government.

hoochyhag · 28/09/2022 15:35

Wow @vera99

Original poster

vera99 · 28/09/2022 15:38

hoochyhag · 28/09/2022 15:35

Wow @vera99

It's wow after wow, after wow I'm afraid. Tories are now in bunker mode, listening only to those they already agree with in their Brexit echo chamber. We are now watching the real-time implosion of the governing party. It’s going to be a hell of a show, though sadly the tickets will prove expensive and we are all going to be the losers.

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hoochyhag · 28/09/2022 15:40

I know 😔

midgetastic · 28/09/2022 15:40

Agreed - this is about priorities and for me keeping people alive is my priority

ArabellaScott · 28/09/2022 15:52

Blossomtoes · 28/09/2022 09:34

I just can't find it in myself to support someone who calls other people 'scum'.

Nobody’s asking you to, it was a throwaway remark by one politician who was distanced by her party and who apologised. Presumably you could find it in yourself to support someone who referred to picanninies with watermelon smiles, described Muslim women as letterboxes and gay men as tank topped bum boys? Talk about double standards.

You think that because I don't vote Labour, I must vote/support Johnson/the Tories? Talk about simplistic.

WagathaChristieMystery · 28/09/2022 16:20

Just seen this earlier this afternoon… www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/sep/28/keir-starmer-mini-budget-truss-kwarteng-labour-conference-rayner-uk-politics-news-live

This country is in an absolute mess right now.

Black Monday anyone? The tories should be in jail - part 2

AutumnCrow · 28/09/2022 16:36

midgetastic · 28/09/2022 15:40

Agreed - this is about priorities and for me keeping people alive is my priority

Yes, fine; but why would Labour choose to sound so thick over biology? Why copy what Theresa May did, which was wrong and dim? It isn't what I expect or want from Labour, the intelligent Party of Harold Wilson, James Callaghan, John Smith, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown in my lifetime.

beonmywaythen · 28/09/2022 20:19

vera99 · 27/09/2022 15:06

Watching Beth Rigby interview Anglea Rayner again I'm welling up - it's like we have been in an abusive relationship politically for years with no hope just cynicism and rampant opportunism in which the great British people are impotent pawns in whatever meagre fates are decided for them. This is the point where we can dare to hope, dare to believe in something better and inclusive and we can see our lying, deceitful captors who are busying themselves looting the system for what they are immoral, borderline evil, incompetent, greedy carpetbaggers of the worse kind.

That's actually really moving!

Original poster

vera99 · 28/09/2022 20:36

beonmywaythen · 28/09/2022 20:19

That's actually really moving!

Show quote history

Thanks !! I've just trolled another thread and said Angela Rayner shouldn't have apologised for calling Tories scum she should have doubled down and called them fucking scum. and added don't bother calling me vile, I don't care. The BoE spent 65 billion quid to stop some pension funds from collapsing today as a direct result of "where the fuck is she" Truss and her ex? shag KK screwing over the markets with their crackers vile so-called economic theory. Utterly vile - I shall have my scum, vile excuse for a human I may or may not be.

What is Toryism but organised spivvery? … No amount of cajolery can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party … So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.

Aneurin Bevan one of the Labour founders of the NHS Manchester, 4 July 1948😁

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BirmaBrite · 28/09/2022 21:01

@poetryandwine it was Thursday the 22nd , probably The Briefing room at 8pm , because I finished around 8ish.

SerendipityJane · 28/09/2022 21:20

It's a high price to pay, but it seems the UK bought Brexit at the expense of the Tory party.

What a shame.

Original poster

vera99 · 28/09/2022 21:26

They need to be buried in a lead-lined coffin with silver stakes through their heart surrounded by garlic and buried 20 feet deep and the grave filled with cement and a 20-tonne boulder to cap it all off. With a massive headstone Tory Party RIP 2022 - happy journey to hell, or something like that anyway.

Blue on blue fighting intensifying.

This.Is.Not.A.Disgrace.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/28/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-tory-mps-sack-or-mutiny

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