Black Monday anyone? The tories should be in jail - part 2

[vera99]

The new Truss government seems to be coming apart at the seams - a thread to debate and analyse our current political situation and ask what is to be done and find out where is the hope.

YABU - give her a chance the Tories are our future!
YANBU - time for a change anyone but the Tories thankyou.

Carry on from www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4641741-black-monday-anyone-the-tories-should-be-in-jail?page=39&reply=120311909

If there's a U turn on 'The Growth Plan', there should surely be a general election. But if the news of a U turn type action is trickled down to the Telegraph or Mail or other client journalists for market testing before debate in the HoC, maybe opposition parties should consider something more impactful to force one than speaker Lynsay Hoyle announcing his disappointment (again).

This PM, Cabinet, Government and Mini-Budget together represent the most extraordinary political event of my lifetime.

Nobody has the much loved and highly respected top of his game Treasury head honcho who worked with Gordon Brown in the 2008 financial crisis was summarily sacked as they know he would have raised the alarm. It is as if they switched off all the security cameras in the bank vault before breaking in to rob them. They really are shameless fuckers and the Brexit liars need to keep on lying but the whole world knows that the emperor has no clothes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Scholar

Chris Morris satirically predicted all of this back in the 90s...

Just had a look at the reviews for Britannia Unchained- their book, on Amazon, worth a look! Thoughts of KK and Liz Truss. (not good)

Britannia Unchained.. a version of Atlas Shrugged set in a Surrey business park (according to Marina Hyde)

Liz Truss will be out once the Tories decide it’s her time. They’ve turned on pretty much every leader PM they’ve ever had.
Backstabbing , capitalists.

I was listening to a really interesting programme on R4 on the way home from work last week, one of the main points made was that in countries that have a good welfare/benefit system, where people aren't worried or struggling to feed their families, this allows more entrepreneurial spirit/start ups, because the risk to the individual is less. If people have a decent safety net, they are more willing to take chances was the general premise.

@potniatheron

(on other thread)

as per my post the West is on a gradual downward trajectory so when I vote I do it not on the basis of who's got the big ideas, because none of the mainstream parties do, just on the basis of who looks the most vaguely competent. Kier Starmer looks vaguely competent and will hopefully be able to encourage his front bench to at least pretend to vague competency, so I'll probably vote for him. I think we could do with a change no matter how cosmetic, may as well give the other lot a go.

Do you think there IS a "big idea" that could reverse that downward trajectory, it's just that none of the major parties have thought of it or are willing to admit it? Or do you think they don't have it because no such idea exists, and the downward trajectory is inevitable?

And the other 30%?

Can't we just have a decent supply of social housing available for everybody who needs it instead, as was traditional Labour policy?

Andrew Marr -bang on the money on the power and significance of Sir Keir's barnstorming speech. Sadly we have nearly 2 more years of this car crash smash and loot government before they get royally booted out.Andrew Marr -bang on the money on the power and significance of Sir Keir's barnstorming speech. Sadly we have nearly 2 more years of this car crash smash and loot government before they get royally booted out.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2022/09/keir-starmer-speech-showed-prime-minister-labour-conference

It was a display of discipline, “God save the King” patriotism and a quiet lust for power, topped off by one of the best leader’s speeches I have heard from any side for a long time. What did we learn,or have confirmed? That after a dozen years Labour is almost certainly heading back to power.

Andrew Marr . . . great. Finally a Labour leader that Tories can look forward to!

I'm in despair over this current government generally. As an environmentalist, vegan and animal lover, I have felt extremely depressed since reading this -

www.independent.co.uk/voices/liz-truss-animal-rights-puppy-smuggling-live-exports-b2174798.html

So many steps backwards 😰

The RSPB and Wildlife Trusts have come out swinging at the gov and their Freeport plans. It's mad how openly angry they are at the gov. and willing to state it.

Good for them but it a stark judgement on these idiots that institutions like the RSPB are now openly against them.

National Trust too.

And now, after the IMF comments, the Pounds is dropping again - 1.06 as last checked

The simple truth is that that Tax cuts have to be paid for - simply borrowing to give money away is not viewed as the mark of a competent government. As this Government cannot realistically U-turn without falling/resigning, the only option is to show how the cuts will be paid for - and that can only be by very very harsh cuts. I suspect that the Military and Pensioners will be preserved... everyone else (especially that perennial Tory target "Scroungers" - i.e. anyone who dares to be poor) prepare to be royally screwed :-(

Seems Truss and Kwarteng had a tiff about how to respond to the market chaos etc. Kwasi wanted a reassuring Treasury statement but Liz was full steam ahead mode.

The Guardian coyly describes them as long term friends.

I just can't find it in myself to support someone who calls other people 'scum'. It's a line in the sand for me. It's symptomatic of a deeply seated tribalism and tendency to 'other' and dehumanise.

@BirmaBrite your comment at 19.32 on 27/09 that a strong safety net correlates with entrepreneurship and growth, because it allow people to take risks, makes a great deal of sense to me. You said this was discussed on R4 last week. I would be grateful for any further leads in tracking the programme and/or the speaker(s) down. Thanks very much

How will we increase home ownership when there's a shortfall of property available? Only by developing, which would probably require changes to planning regs, and possibly along the same lines as those just announced by the Tories.

It's hard. The post below you talks about the RSPB and other charities aghast (as am I) at the threat to wildlife and land. But we need more housing - largely because of our changing demographics, because we live in smaller and smaller households.

So how do we balance that? Will people be willing to squish up and live in smaller houses and multigenerational households? Could we make buy-to-let less attractive? (in some areas this seems to have pushed landlords into Air BnB lets instead of providing rental housing).

I just can't find it in myself to support someone who calls other people 'scum'.

Nobody’s asking you to, it was a throwaway remark by one politician who was distanced by her party and who apologised. Presumably you could find it in yourself to support someone who referred to picanninies with watermelon smiles, described Muslim women as letterboxes and gay men as tank topped bum boys? Talk about double standards.

That is so interesting, @BirmaBrite - I agree with creating an economic environment where it’s safe to take risks and try out new business ideas, I think that sounds really positive.

I’ve always admired Scandinavian countries’ welfare systems as they seem very fair and also quite effective at helping people.

I wonder whether a system like that would work in the UK, because I know Scandinavian countries have smaller populations than us. I wonder if having such a big population would make it possible for us to have that system (as the population would put a strain on the system , a bit like what we’re seeing with the NHS).

Which is all very well. However, it fails to explain the US, and hence won't mean a hill o' beans to the current crop of Tory turds.

Mind you, if the US did suddenly introduce an amazing welfare system that was the envy of the world, you'd have a queue of Tories explaining why it wouldn't be suitable for the UK.

Never forget comparison with other countries are fig-leaves for the real intent.

YABU - give her a chance the Tories are our future!
YANBU - time for a change anyone but the Tories thankyou.

The trouble with that is that you can think the Tories are shit but not believe that "anyone" else would be better. That's the logic that has led to Truss being in charge, people hounding BoJo out of office because "anyone" else would be better than him. That's what led to May being forced out, because "anyone" else would have been better.

Just because the present group in charge is unbelievably terrible doesn't automatically mean that their is a better option - it certainly doesn't believe that every other choice is better.

I can't vote in this AIBU poll because it's basically a choice between saying the Tories are great or saying you'd prefer to see a more far right version of the BNP running concentration camps and committing genocide.

I don't think either POV is right, but each to their own.

Well, this is interesting. The 'IMF has revealed itself as a left wing body' and 'the FT is not a business paper'. We are reaching the point where the Britannia Unhinged mob are going to be carried off to a comfy room and heavily sedated. May it be soon.

Didn't the IMF also criticise the austerity policies of Cameron? Daniel Hannan suggesting the pound has crashed at the prospect of a Labour Government maybe the most tragic (particularly considering the pound increased most in value WITH Labour Governments).

@WagathaChristieMystery Shouldn't having a large population make it easier to have a social safety net? Bigger tax base , economies of scale and so on.

Having decent affordable transport / housing like eg Denmark is really a matter of having the political backbone to raise the tax they require. British - and Irish - voters desire the ends but refuse to will the means.