AIBU to believe rich people should contribute much more?

[marcusian]

A bit tongue in cheek, but given that its almost impossible for poorly paid workers including care workers and nurses to strike, and that the government have given people earning over £100K a massive pay rise, what other ways could the most wealthy be made to pay?

My idea: - a new LUXURIES tax (think 50% VAT) on things ordinary people cant buy, like superyachts, airplanes, £10K+ dining tables, a box at wimbledon, £500+ handbags, £100+ football boots!

AIBU - No - they should pay more and heres my ideas how they should do it!
AIBU - Yes - leave wealthy people alone, its not their fault

Don't believe it all you want but I think you may even have said that it's already happening yourself if you re-read your posts... (I'll help you out, look for the ones where you talk about the "rich" avoiding tax)

@Blossomtoes

I apologise for being a tit and rude in my response to you.

It just frustrates me because I do pay a fair whack in contributions and regardless of that it feels like it doesn't make any difference. There is still children in poverty and families with both parents working their arse off still
unable to heat their homes.

If I could envision a positive change, such as a well managed NHS, food and heat for all I would happily pay more than I do now.

I'm not normally an arsehole

I had that too and then lost it all and earn nothing like it because of serious illness - that not going to happen to you? Because I thought that too. And you won't be earning £100k then. And what about if you get ill? Who will help you? The nurses? The hospital cleaners. Because they're not on £100k either.
There but the grace of God.

Ironically, those on benefits actually employ this strategy relatively: they add 0 value whilst still getting an income

You do know that the majority of benefit claimants are in work and they have their rubbish wages topped up? And that a large part of the benefits budget isn’t claimed?

I actually give up with you top

You’re being deliberately obtuse.

Put simply You develop things with money. Then increased demand for them, if that happens, results in more money being made (with things being made for profit of course as nobody does this for free), which in turn allows you to make more products, this more profit, and so on.

What about that don’t you get?

I completely agree with everything you’ve just said. And thank you very much for the apology and the flowers, I genuinely appreciate both.

@Quincythequince

Its not creating new wealth.

Its moving wealth about. Like I said.

Which is why most very rich people are very rich because of exploitation

Its why most wealth should be shared more equally.

Bezo is very wealthy because he exploits the very low paid amongst other things

Except I’m not.

You have misunderstood that post if you think that. It’s about generalisations being inappropriate on both sides, yet some people are keen to assume they are true for some groups of people, and not for others.

I think many poor people are not at fault for their low earnings, and I also think that some people who are rich are indeed just lucky.

So what is an increase in GDP then if no wealth is created?

If no wealth is created you are saying that as a country we have as much wealth as we did 100 years ago. 500 years ago even?

Is that what you believe?

Because those two statements are objectively false .

Most people who earn minimum wage are those who graft the hardest in our society. Swanning around at meetings or working on excel or sending emails is not graft.

Except that is a measure of physical effort output. It's hard and strenuous, but unless you have also done a hard intellectual job, you don't have a basis for comparison. Intellectual labour that wakes you in the middle of the night and keeps you awake until nearly dawn while you puzzle out the answer is just as much hard work, even though you lift nothing heavier than a pen.

The person with a pen is the one more likely to be writing the advice or the judgement that will affect thousands or hundreds of thousands of lives... not simply ensuring the bread counter in Tesco Bradford is well stocked.

@Quincythequince

Lol

Its moving wealth?

Taking wealth from other countries.

Oh and of course. Printing money.

People believing in never ending growth is like people saying climate change is a myth.

Wealth and energy are very linked.

Read Mathew Syed in the SUnday Times this week. Quickly summarized as "Energy is wealth and has been since the discovery we could burn coal" if rather more refined.

I honestly thought this was talking about energy output when wealthy

I was thinking along the lines of the super rich not having to move about much because if that was me, I would expend about as much energy needed to occasionally poke a little cake in my mouth and that's about it.

** the PP comment about energy and wealth being linked, it became obvious when you posted the article.

It's late. I'm tired

Sorry @Eeiliethya but it is an interesting and thought provoking read regardless.

I don’t believe in never ending growth.
I do believe in growth, and wealth creation.

How is investing a concept and creating something from first principles, stealing from anyone, let alone other countries.

But

never ending growth is the same as growth, and wealth creation

If you can create wealth how can it be anything but never ending? You just keep creating more?

I didnt say stealing

(We've certainly stolen precious metals etc)

I said moving

Between DH and I we pay 100k tax. We pay enough, and we've worked and continue to generate those type of salaries and have sacrificed a lot. I came home after 7 last night, we had dinner then DH went back to work until 10:30.
My DF worked until he was nearly 70, his SME which he built out of nothing paid an eye watering amount of tax over its lifetime, as did he. Everything he has worked all his life to build will be taxed when he goes, we won't benefit from it the tax man will.
EVERYONE should be paid a living wage, but taxing the perceived 'rich' isn't the answer.

A lot of the uks wealth creation came from slavery.

That was definitely stealing

Taking wealth from other countries.

What is that if not stealing?

Never ending growth is not the same as growth.

Because one is never ending and one is not.

Please go back to my GDP question please?I actually think you are trolling now.

You have to be, nobody actually believes what you are saying.

Growth is growth?

If its not growing it has ended? If its growing it hasn't ended

Most people should believe what I'm saying.

We're fucked other wise

(We're fucked any way but ...)

I have given you specific modern examples of wealth creation.

I could sit here now and creat an app that people loved and would pay to use.

I am going to let someone else, if they show up here, explain basic economics to you, if they can be bothered.

Also, thinking you can’t grow your country’s GDP and create wealth is madness.

that the government have given people earning over £100K a massive pay rise,

Well this isn't true for a start, they reduced the rate for people who earn over £150k. Also people earning between £100 - £120k pay a rate of 60% on these earnings.

You are now bringing slavery and climate change into the conversation

😂

It’s actually been a reasonably entertaining exchange.

Have a Good night top I’m off to bed.