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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To join my uni's Pakistani Society even though I'm not Pakistani/Asian?

161 replies

Ahsoka2001 · 27/09/2022 12:40

I'm back at uni doing an MA for one year (straight after finishing undergrad, I'm 21) and wanted to join at least one society despite being very busy.

There's a few I tried in first year and didn't like (e.g. board games society only had niche games no one knew and not the classic ones) and the sports societies are all quite expensive.

In second year, I made friends with an amazing girl who had Pakistani heritage and in fact led the Pakistani society till she graduated last year. She was very proud of her culture and just knowing her has made me quite interested in learning more about the country/people. So I thought joining this society would be a nice way to do that and meet some new people. But would it be odd to do this as someone who's White British?

The website does say "This is not exclusively for Asian students, all are welcome" but I'm wondering if this is just a formality and in reality it would be a bit odd? Not sure...

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 27/09/2022 16:58

I have happy memories of joint Celtic Afro-Caribbean dos at Uni in the 80s. Weirdly I am neither Irish, nor Afro Caribbean. But I do like a party.

Pottedfern · 27/09/2022 16:59

Ahsoka2001 · 27/09/2022 13:18

@PeekabooAtTheZoo would you be saying the same thing if a black African person wanted to join? Bearing in mind Pakistanis aren't really classed as black.

I was with you until you said this. “Pakistanis aren’t really classed as black”??

You clearly know nothing about how to talk about or to people of ethnic minorities. Please spare this group from having to listen to you make comments like this

AmJustDone · 27/09/2022 17:00

beastlyslumber · 27/09/2022 16:45

Wow this thread is a great demonstration of Woke Racism. White person says they'd like to learn more about another culture and country. Is immediately jumped on by other white people saying "no! you must only associate with white people!" while Pakistanis on the thread are like, "cool, you're welcome."

Really it's just such a stark demonstration of racism in 2022.

I'm enjoying it. It's symptomatic of the amount of explanations I get as a woman of SE Asian heritage about how I just don't understand why I should be offended by comments that people make. Which I don't see as racist. Apparently I just don't understand. It's ok - they REALLY explain!

I'm particularly enjoying the "speaking their language" comments. What with Urdu (the language referenced) being only one of several languages spoken in Pakistan and English being the second language which I'm guessing the OP understands - what constitutes "their" language?

OP - crack on with joining

Ahsoka2001 · 27/09/2022 17:18

Pottedfern · 27/09/2022 16:59

I was with you until you said this. “Pakistanis aren’t really classed as black”??

You clearly know nothing about how to talk about or to people of ethnic minorities. Please spare this group from having to listen to you make comments like this

Sorry for offending. Clearly I have some learning to do.

OP posts:
Ahsoka2001 · 28/09/2022 13:51

Just to update everyone I received this response from the society:

"It’s not uncommon, we have members from all over. You’re more than welcome to come to our event tonight and if it’s something you enjoy we can add you to the WhatsApp chats."

Their social media reflects this - stories showing quite a few clearly non-Pakistani members and I also found out through my friend that our mutual friends (Black-British with African heritage) went along to a few events with her.

And to people saying "they have to say they allow others" - I checked other cultural societies and not all of them explicitly say this. The Afro-Caribbean Society, for example, said it's designed to be a safe cultural space and didn't include anything about being all-inclusive.

That's not to say I'll definitely go along tonight. It's something I'll still think about/prepare for a bit...

OP posts:
AchatAVendre · 28/09/2022 13:55

The Afro-Caribbean society was one of the most active at my university and there can't have been that many who didn't go along to an event at some point or other!

KurriKawari · 28/09/2022 13:58

I haven't read the full thread but am Pakistani and I would say contact the society and ask. I personally would be fine with it. Helps to increase awareness.

Ahsoka2001 · 28/09/2022 13:59

KurriKawari · 28/09/2022 13:58

I haven't read the full thread but am Pakistani and I would say contact the society and ask. I personally would be fine with it. Helps to increase awareness.

No worries, I've already contacted them and have updated with their response

OP posts:
KurriKawari · 28/09/2022 14:01

OP, I don't think asking on mumsnet was the best idea, posters on here are strange when it comes to race, am so glad you got a positive response from the society. I know many white people who have visited Pakistan and loved it. Right now the country is going through the worse floods ever seen, am sure the society would love all the help they can get.

KurriKawari · 28/09/2022 14:02

OP, check out Rosie Gabrielle on Instagram.

newnamethanks · 28/09/2022 14:04

Ask them, not us.

WagathaChristieMystery · 28/09/2022 14:08

gnilliwdog · 27/09/2022 13:10

Message them and ask? Could be a great way to learn about music, art, film, history etc of the culture.

I agree with this. It would potentially be a really interesting opportunity to learn about Pakistani culture.

Butchyrestingface · 28/09/2022 14:13

If that's what the group is for then saying "Everybody welcome" on their webpage is really fucking strange. Why do you suppose they say that?

Maybe the university's non-discrimination policy demands it?

The last person who tried to say 'fuck off men and white people' regarding her university society's meet-ups got into a spot of bother and made the national news a few years ago...

@Ahsoka2001 Do you speak Urdu or Punjaba or any other relevant language?

Ahsoka2001 · 28/09/2022 14:14

Butchyrestingface · 28/09/2022 14:13

If that's what the group is for then saying "Everybody welcome" on their webpage is really fucking strange. Why do you suppose they say that?

Maybe the university's non-discrimination policy demands it?

The last person who tried to say 'fuck off men and white people' regarding her university society's meet-ups got into a spot of bother and made the national news a few years ago...

@Ahsoka2001 Do you speak Urdu or Punjaba or any other relevant language?

No, I don't speak any second language unfortunately. Did you see my most recent update with the society's response, etc?

OP posts:
Butchyrestingface · 28/09/2022 14:15

No, I don't speak any second language unfortunately. Did you see my most recent update with the society's response, etc?

Yes, just seen it. Looks like it's toe in the door time then!

user1494050295 · 28/09/2022 14:16

If they get funding from the university then they are obliged to be inclusive

beastlyslumber · 28/09/2022 14:19

That's great OP. Go along and meet some people!

And yes, MN is not a good place for these kind of questions as it's full of woke racists who think people of different ethnic origins shouldn't mix.

yasminisa · 28/09/2022 14:26

I'm Indian, and back when I was at uni, I joined the Chinese society, Caribbean society, the Singapore society, Russian society. All because they gave out food that I wanted to try. I had a ball, and made a lot of friends. Do it OP!

Angryinvain · 28/09/2022 15:17

Hi OP.

im also a Uni student and understand what it’s like trying to find a society you want to join.

pakistan is a beautiful country with such an interesting history and culture. I’ve always wanted to go and have always been in awe at it. Anyone who I know who has been has said it’s absolutely breathtaking!

But im going to be completely honest with you and say that I would probably feel a bit off towards someone who isn’t Pakistani and has no direct links to Pakistan joining the society. Yes, they do social events and get togethers and it sounds like a lovely group to join, but ultimately it is targeted towards giving students who are Pakistani a group to belong to, where they can join in and meet others. It gives a sense of belonging for students who might not know anyone else. They won’t explicitly say this and it sounds like they have been lovely and inviting towards you, but some group members may feel like you’re invading their space.

as long as the entire group are happy and comfortable with someone non Pakistani joining then that is fine! It sounds like a lovely group :)

I’m irish/british- and if my uni had an Irish society, I would join that. I can relate to having irish family, aswell as similar culture (following Gaelic sports, Irish music, irish dancing). Even if we didn’t talk about Ireland 24/7, it’s a group of people who will experience similar things and will have relatable experiences. Of course if someone non Irish wanted to join that wouldn’t be a problem, but what if lots of non irish people wanted to join and then suddenly the society isn’t an irish society but just a general society instead? And if those people who had no links to Ireland wanted to use the society as a chance to learn about Ireland and Irish culture, it would be lovely of them but ultimately the other group members didn’t join the Irish society as teachers or to teach and educate others. They joined to meet other people who they can relate too. I wouldn’t mind teaching someone else or educating them as long as they were genuinely respectful and interested (eg, not joining on the sole stereotype that Irish people drink a lot and they want to go on wild nights out) but I know some people would possibly feel a little put out by being used to educate someone

its great you’re considering this so much and you sound like you’re trying to be sensitive and not cause upset which is lovely, and there have been several opinions on this thread from Pakistani people who wouldn’t mind. And ultimately that’s what matters here, nothing else! I know you’ve contacted the society already and they were really welcoming- as long as everyone is comfortable with it and happy for you to be there then it should be fine. As long as you’re respectful and don’t use it for your own advantage (eg the film situation although I know you said you’re not doing this anymore which is good).

the only thing that matters here is what the Pakistani society members think about it. If they are genuinely happy for you to be there then that’s fine, but be prepared for other students to think it’s a bit unusual that you’re joining. x

Tonty · 28/09/2022 15:29

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 27/09/2022 13:18

I’m sorry I think you should let them have their space without a white person barging in.

Don't be silly! it's a society that explicitly states it's not exclusively for people of that heritage. Everything isn't about white v black.

Ahsoka2001 · 28/09/2022 16:17

Angryinvain · 28/09/2022 15:17

Hi OP.

im also a Uni student and understand what it’s like trying to find a society you want to join.

pakistan is a beautiful country with such an interesting history and culture. I’ve always wanted to go and have always been in awe at it. Anyone who I know who has been has said it’s absolutely breathtaking!

But im going to be completely honest with you and say that I would probably feel a bit off towards someone who isn’t Pakistani and has no direct links to Pakistan joining the society. Yes, they do social events and get togethers and it sounds like a lovely group to join, but ultimately it is targeted towards giving students who are Pakistani a group to belong to, where they can join in and meet others. It gives a sense of belonging for students who might not know anyone else. They won’t explicitly say this and it sounds like they have been lovely and inviting towards you, but some group members may feel like you’re invading their space.

as long as the entire group are happy and comfortable with someone non Pakistani joining then that is fine! It sounds like a lovely group :)

I’m irish/british- and if my uni had an Irish society, I would join that. I can relate to having irish family, aswell as similar culture (following Gaelic sports, Irish music, irish dancing). Even if we didn’t talk about Ireland 24/7, it’s a group of people who will experience similar things and will have relatable experiences. Of course if someone non Irish wanted to join that wouldn’t be a problem, but what if lots of non irish people wanted to join and then suddenly the society isn’t an irish society but just a general society instead? And if those people who had no links to Ireland wanted to use the society as a chance to learn about Ireland and Irish culture, it would be lovely of them but ultimately the other group members didn’t join the Irish society as teachers or to teach and educate others. They joined to meet other people who they can relate too. I wouldn’t mind teaching someone else or educating them as long as they were genuinely respectful and interested (eg, not joining on the sole stereotype that Irish people drink a lot and they want to go on wild nights out) but I know some people would possibly feel a little put out by being used to educate someone

its great you’re considering this so much and you sound like you’re trying to be sensitive and not cause upset which is lovely, and there have been several opinions on this thread from Pakistani people who wouldn’t mind. And ultimately that’s what matters here, nothing else! I know you’ve contacted the society already and they were really welcoming- as long as everyone is comfortable with it and happy for you to be there then it should be fine. As long as you’re respectful and don’t use it for your own advantage (eg the film situation although I know you said you’re not doing this anymore which is good).

the only thing that matters here is what the Pakistani society members think about it. If they are genuinely happy for you to be there then that’s fine, but be prepared for other students to think it’s a bit unusual that you’re joining. x

I guess it is one of those things were even if most members (committee included) don't see a problem, there might well be a few who wouldn't like it. But I guess I'd only be part of that issue if there are already other non-Pakistanis in the group. And of course it depends who I end up talking to. If the group is say 200 members (not sure how big it actually is) I'll never get to talk to everyone.

Thanks for the awesome answer anyway.

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 28/09/2022 18:06

I think it's extremely racist to assume that the group members can't speak for themselves. OP asked, and they responded that OP would be very welcome.

It's racist and paternalist to assume that they must be lying or don't have the wit to discourage OP if they don't want her there. They're not children.

I'm so sick of this woke racism crap. You're trying to divide people by the colour of their skin and you think you're doing good! Stop it.

Olinguita · 28/09/2022 18:23

Message and ask but generally I think this is ok. I'm white British but I was a member of a certain Asian society at uni, but it was directly related to my degree AND it was very clear that the society was for the appreciation of arts, film, music, celebration of cultural festivals etc rather than specifically being a safe space for members of that ethnicity to connect. You may know this already but Pakistani music is some of the most wonderful in the world. Look up Coke Studio Pakistan and be blown away by the beautiful blend of contemporary and traditional sounds from around the country. And look up a band called Vital Signs too - iconic! I hope South Asians on this thread don't mind me "explaining" Pakistani culture - I hope it is clear that it is coming from a space of pure appreciation and admiration rather than wanting to barge into your spaces

Beechview · 28/09/2022 18:25

beastlyslumber · 28/09/2022 18:06

I think it's extremely racist to assume that the group members can't speak for themselves. OP asked, and they responded that OP would be very welcome.

It's racist and paternalist to assume that they must be lying or don't have the wit to discourage OP if they don't want her there. They're not children.

I'm so sick of this woke racism crap. You're trying to divide people by the colour of their skin and you think you're doing good! Stop it.

So true. It's because of this attitude that we have a divided and not integrated society.

Jarstastic · 28/09/2022 19:49

I don’t see why not. I wouldn’t see the issue with say a Japanese society, so why should it be different.