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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there must be a fall in house prices?

79 replies

Explaintome · 27/09/2022 09:26

And not really understand why it hasn't already?

I understand people with existing fixed mortgages aren't affected immediately, but anyone buying now is.

Or is the stamp duty thing enough to negate the interest rates effects?

I'm not necessarily saying a crash but surely there must be some fall in prices?

OP posts:
FourTeaFallOut · 27/09/2022 13:20

House prices won't crash. They could stall again or even drop a little but they aren't going to sink like a stone.

urgen · 27/09/2022 13:26

These threads always interest me. There are certainly people who wait and wait and wait. You seen them on the property porn programmes saying they have been looking for 3 years, they KNOW the market is going to drop next year etc etc. They never get on the housing ladder and often you can rent something much nicer than you can buy.

I am a home owner. No interest in moving now. If I was thinking of moving I would be getting a fixed rate and putting in hopeful offers to sellers.

As a PP says. Do not allow the UK to be the buying ground for say the Far East investors.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 27/09/2022 13:26

Dont know why people think it wont crash- I remember the 2008 crash, my sister made a loss on her London flat. A lot of my friends who bought in London in the last 10 years cant believe it, they assume a home is always an appreciating asset, but believe me it happens

Londongent · 27/09/2022 13:36

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 27/09/2022 13:26

Dont know why people think it wont crash- I remember the 2008 crash, my sister made a loss on her London flat. A lot of my friends who bought in London in the last 10 years cant believe it, they assume a home is always an appreciating asset, but believe me it happens

Agree with this, prices fell about 10% on average. I can see a similar thing happening.
There are always periods where house prices fall in reaction to the economic climate at the time. This will be no different.

Yabado · 27/09/2022 13:37

@GasPanic I agree totally but if he rents it’s wasted money and it’s a lot more to rent the exact same place

He’s got a big deposit and it’s a place he’s happy to stay in long term and it’s loads cheaper than renting :

if he stays long term he will ride out the crap times
we are in the southwest where you can’t even rent a room for under £600 a month so I think he will be ok

SweetSakura · 27/09/2022 13:37

@OnlyFoolsnMothers longer term though she wouldn't have done?
And flats tend to be a more volatile asset that freehold property because to some extent you are at the mercy of the management company too.

Yabado · 27/09/2022 13:38

@GasPanic I’ve told my son to see it as a long term home and not a quick investment and he will be ok

To many people see it as an investment rather than a home

bigbluebus · 27/09/2022 13:42

I'm not sure what rate mortgage applications were stress tested to but I heard someone on the this morning saying that someone with a £200,000 mortgage coming off a fixed rate would be paying around £600pm more if rates go to 6%. Add that to rising fuel costs and food prices then I can only guess that there must be people out there who are likely to fall behind on mortgage payments and be forced to sell. Surely this will lead to a price crash?

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 27/09/2022 13:50

bigbluebus · 27/09/2022 13:42

I'm not sure what rate mortgage applications were stress tested to but I heard someone on the this morning saying that someone with a £200,000 mortgage coming off a fixed rate would be paying around £600pm more if rates go to 6%. Add that to rising fuel costs and food prices then I can only guess that there must be people out there who are likely to fall behind on mortgage payments and be forced to sell. Surely this will lead to a price crash?

This is why I've paid a couple of thousand to early exit a deal and lock in a rate - £600 extra a month would be so hard, I'd be living hand to mouth (which is shocking when I consider my current outgoings low and my wage decent).

Mingot · 27/09/2022 14:19

I think they'll crash.

Loads around here have been reduced and are 'unexpectedly back on the market'

Home Counties.

Blahdeebla · 27/09/2022 14:22

People have been telling me there'll be a fall in the housing market for years. Hasn't happened yet.

toomychtiss · 27/09/2022 14:26

Flats in my area of SW London have definitely sold recently for less than people paid for them.

toomychtiss · 27/09/2022 14:29

and that was a few months ago

Londongent · 27/09/2022 14:52

Blahdeebla · 27/09/2022 14:22

People have been telling me there'll be a fall in the housing market for years. Hasn't happened yet.

Interest rates haven't increased like this for years either.
Whenever they have in the past prices have fallen, particularly with push side inflation.

mondaytosunday · 27/09/2022 15:09

Interest rates are still on the low side. There's not much slowdown in the market near me (though winter is always slower), but I have for the first time in ages seen two house price reductions. But that may be because sellers are still thinking we are at the peak, when things have flattened somewhat.
I tell you the rental market is sizzling though!
The weak pound will benefit the £5m plus end of the market, the stamp duty the bottom end. Not much for the middle, but flatter rather than much of a drop is my prediction.

IpanemaChic · 27/09/2022 15:14

More than 300 fixed rate Mortgages have been withdrawn in the last 24hrs. New deals are expected to be 5% and above and that’s before the November rate rise.

It will affect the housing market.

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 27/09/2022 15:24

Was there a crash in the early 90s when interest rates went crazy that time? I know my parents bought theirs as a repo in an auction as we eventually made friends with the former owners when they got a council house on our road, and all the houses we viewed were repos/mortgage defaults but I have no idea if the prices changed as I was only six.

Londongent · 27/09/2022 15:38

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 27/09/2022 15:24

Was there a crash in the early 90s when interest rates went crazy that time? I know my parents bought theirs as a repo in an auction as we eventually made friends with the former owners when they got a council house on our road, and all the houses we viewed were repos/mortgage defaults but I have no idea if the prices changed as I was only six.

They were already falling and they fell further. Overall prices always go up, obviously due to inflation and pay increases.
However in tough economic times, such as now, prices always fall. It just takes a while for the market to catch up with the realities.

To think there must be a fall in house prices?
Explaintome · 27/09/2022 15:45

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 27/09/2022 15:24

Was there a crash in the early 90s when interest rates went crazy that time? I know my parents bought theirs as a repo in an auction as we eventually made friends with the former owners when they got a council house on our road, and all the houses we viewed were repos/mortgage defaults but I have no idea if the prices changed as I was only six.

An almighty crash. The house I bought for £42k in 1992 had previously been mortgaged for £70k

OP posts:
Squidlydoo · 27/09/2022 15:50

Still massive demand around me for housing. I sold a house recently and had four above asking price offers writhing 24 hours. There are also a large number of Hong Kong families moving into our area buying large 5 bed houses for cash. I think the demand will keep prices high for a while

vera99 · 27/09/2022 16:06

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/09/27/house-prices-fall-much-15pc-interest-rates-hit-6pc/

Soaring rates could put cost of repayments at their highest level in three decades
Tim Wallace
27 September 2022 • 11:26am
House prices will fall by as much as 15pc as higher interest rates slash buyers’ spending power, economists have warned, while the number of homes sold risks collapsing from 1.2m per year to just 800,000.
This threatens to blow a new £5bn hole in the Government’s finances, as years of rapid growth in stamp duty revenues come to an end and are thrown into reverse.
Capital Economics and Credit Suisse both estimate prices could fall by between 10pc and 15pc if interest rates rise to 6pc as financial markets predict.

“Were Bank Rate to rise from 2.25pc now to 6.1pc in June 2023 as is currently priced in, quoted mortgage rates might rise from 3.6pc last month to about 6.6pc, a level last reached in 2008,” Andrew Wishart at Capital Economics said.
Mortgage debts are larger now than they were in 2008, as property prices are higher and buyers must borrow more to secure a home. As a result, higher rates will put an even larger strain on owners’ finances than during the financial crisis.
“At the current level of house prices, an increase in mortgage rates to 6.6pc would cause the cost of repayments on a new mortgage to rise to their highest level since 1990,” Mr Wishart said.
This is “potentially a handbrake on how much people can borrow and can afford to bid for properties.”

Andrew Garthwaite at Credit Suisse said the combination of recession, higher interest rates and rising inflation will all combine to deal a serious blow to the property market.
“Unemployment has to rise to circa 6pc to control wage growth and to get inflation back to target,” Mr Garthwaite said in a note to clients. “The 8pc decline in sterling since 1 August should add a further 1.3pc to near-term inflation.
“On current swap rates, the [average] mortgage will be 6.3pc. House prices could easily fall 10pc to 15pc.”
Mr Wishart expects the number of homes sold to drop by one-third to around 800,000 per year, as buyers are unable to get the loans they need, potential sellers are put off by a drop in the market, and builders rein in their plans as lower prices mean lower returns.

Stamp duty revenues have shot up on the strength of the housing market, jumping from £6.1bn in 2010 to £12.7bn in 2019 on the eve of the pandemic, and £17.5bn in the past 12 months.
The Office for Budget Responsibility expected revenues to keep rising in the years to come.
But the decision to raise the stamp duty threshold is expected to hit receipts by around £1.5bn per year, and now the anticipated slump in the housing market could wipe an extra £5.4bn off revenues as fewer people move house and so a smaller number pay the transaction tax.
Financial markets expect the Bank of England’s base rate to rise as high as 6pc next year after the Chancellor’s big-borrowing mini-budget last week.

The Bank of England has so far refused to hold an emergency meeting to raise rates to combat turmoil in financial markets in the wake of the mini-budget. Instead officials are sticking with the headline interest rate of 2.25pc which they agreed at last Thursday’s policy meeting.
But interest rates charged by banks and building societies depend on costs in financial markets, so borrowers already face higher costs regardless of the Bank of England’s plans.

Julie-Ann Haines, the chief executive of the Principality Building Society, said borrowers have already faced “very significant” increases in their costs.
“Even so far, what we’ve seen passed on in mortgage rates is resulting in about an extra £3,000 to £4,000 a year for an average £250,000 mortgage,” she told BBC Radio 4’s Today Programme.
“What the markets do in the next 10 days is really quite important in determining how big the impact is.”
It marks an abrupt turnaround for the housing market, which has seen explosive price growth in recent years.
Price rises surged into double figures in the pandemic, propelled by record low interest rates and lockdowns, which pushed families to reassess their living arrangements.
In July, annual growth hit a new record high of 15.5pc.

cloutneerbeout · 27/09/2022 17:18

Why are people saying "there is still demand near me for housing" as if that proves anything? The shit has only really hit the fan in the last few days, we aren't going to properly see the effects for weeks yet.

We are one such example of buyers who would have bought in the next couple of months, but who will now wait for a bit after Friday's budget and subsequent events. We are in rented at the moment, we pay £1700 a month in a fixed term contract and if we took out a mortgage prior to all this we'd have been looking at £1900 a month on a 3% interest rate. We'd now be looking at at least £300 more than that - we could afford it, but I don't want to take the risk of the value of whatever house we buy plummeting, I'd rather wait. I do not see prices going crazy rising again any time soon, even if they don't plummet, so I don't see the harm in waiting on balance. Yes our rent might go up but if it does it does - at least we won't be in negative equity nor have sunk all our savings into to a place we can't afford.

Newgirls · 28/09/2022 08:59

I think international buyers will be keen for a while yet until a general election. The £ will stay low until then at least.

Signeduptosimplyreplytothis · 28/09/2022 09:03

It's already happening in my area. I can actually afford to buy now whereas I couldn't before. Only problem is I know can't get a mortgage where I could before ....

Roselilly36 · 28/09/2022 09:40

Without doubt the property market is going to be affected, how can it not be. I have seen the crash in early 90’s & 08, very, very bad times for people, I hope it isn’t as bad as that. Things are going too get much worse before they get better.

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