To think I am NOT controlling/overreacting?

[KazMa]

Scenario 1:
DH went out with friends. At midnight DH messaged he’s on the train home, so should be in for 1am and his friend will give him a lift home so I went to sleep. I woke up at 3am and DH wasn’t home, rang him numerous times and no answer so I began to panic what had happened… Sent message on WhatsApp and no reply. Half an hour later he walks in saying sorry he was just chatting to his friend in the car (one that gave lift) and he got carried away and didn’t think to message me as he thought I’d be asleep. We have a 4 month old baby so I regularly still get up at night to feed.

AIBU to think he should have just text me that he’s back but just chatting outside so will be late in? I was worrying something had happened.

He thinks that’s controlling of me and that we doesn’t need to tell me every single move he makes.

Scenario 2:
We were out shopping as a family and DH suddenly wondered off. I rang him to see where he was, plus baby was getting hungry and agitated to I wanted to go home. He wouldn’t tell me where/what shop and just said he’s coming. Acting all secretive 🙄 Later found out he just went to KFC to get a snack. Why couldn’t he just tell me “I’m just at KFC, coming in 5 mins”
Again, he said he’s an adult and can do what he likes and doesn’t always have to tell me everything.

Who’s in the wrong?

I think I disagree with every single one of these statements:

Yes he could have told you where he was in the shops, but why did you need to know? The relevant question is when will he be back, if you are waiting - not where he is. Asking him where he is could easily feel like an accusation.
Isn't this normal conversation? It's a quick way to establish what might be best in terms of where and when to meet. "I'm in Boots picking up shampoo" might mean that I'd tell DH I'll come to him as Boots is nearer the car, for example.

I also don't think it makes any sense to ring multiple times. If there really is a problem, he's not going to be able to pick up six calls any better than one. If there isn't a problem (by far the most likely with a grown man), then ringing multiple times is just a way of nagging him/ controlling him. Yes, he could have sent you a text, but you could have also looked outside to see the car was there? Or trusted that he'd turn up and gone back to sleep....

Ringing multiple times is usually a desperate attempt to get the person to notice the phone ringing. Often not useful, sure, but certainly not controlling. As for trusting he'd turn up, if DH tells me he's on his way home via a route that's pretty specific on how long it takes, I'd be worried if 3 hours later he's nowhere to be seen.

His desire to be independent is clearly clashing with your desire to know stuff/ be reassured in some way... both of you are probably a bit 'triggery' about these things... trying to invalidate how each other feel ain't going to help - you will likely just become more polarised.

His desire to be independent? This is a grown man with a wife and a baby not a teenage boy. He IS independent - he's a grown up with responsibilities and, we assume, a job etc. OP doesn't need reassurance, she needs to know that a) her husband is safe or b) that he's available to help or move onto whatever next they have planned for their day.

It’s just common courtesy and respect to let your partner know your running late. It takes seconds to send a text.

Again with the shopping just a quick “just going to pop into Y shop to get something” wondering off without a word is just rude.

Yup.

Your OH is in the wrong. Wandering off when he is out with you is a bad sign. He's the controlling one.

I can see how scenario one is annoying (especially with a baby - I have a wakeful 6mo 🥴), but I can also see how it happens. I lose track of time when I'm out with friends, although I must admit that now I have a baby I am a lot more conscious of checking my phone and updating DP when I go out. I haven't had a night out yet though.

Scenario two is weirder for me. He just wandered off without saying anything?

1st one- you're overreacting.
2nd one- the KFC thing is just weird. Who wanders off?

Next time I'd pretend not to notice and be unavailable when he tries finding you

Of course you're not being controlling. You just want to know where he is, that's all. Wanting to find out that someone is safe and well rather than lying dead in the gutter is not controlling, nor is needing to know how long he's going to be because a young baby needs to be fed.

@KazMa honestly you’re not unreasonable but you do have to to listen to someone if they say you are controlling them, they feel controlled- whatever your suspicions for their motivations for saying this- you have to take it at face value to maintain mutual respect.

The last thing you want is a mean mummy/naughty man child dynamic, where you’re right but miserable and he mostly delights in winding you up/defying you. Not attractive in either direction.

If he wants to vape, he can vape - why shame him for it? It clearly makes him dig his heels in more and really that’s his call, his body his choice. If he doesn’t tell you where he is or where he’s gone in a shopping centre, fine text him/call him in a friendly way tell him you want to leave, don’t wait for him and then ask him to account for his whereabouts. If he doesnt turn up after a few minutes then do what you want to do, goto the car or wherever and text him something like “hey we were going to head off now, dc is getting very grumpy, do you want me to hold on or are you happy to make your own way back?x”
If you are really worried about him when he’s out late and he comes back okay, just be delighted he’s back, be happy to see him and tell him you were worried. I think when you are having a heart to heart with a friend it’s understandable to not want to break the flow of conversation, but I think if you had more mutual respect between you, he probably would have texted. He feels he has to answer to you, he doesn’t like it and I don’t particularly blame him.

Maybe you always keep him briefed on your whereabouts, or intentions or when you’ll be delayed- but has he actually asked for that?

IMO he is the one being controlling - he's controlling the information you have access to. I'd say he has no problem lying to you - by omission at least - and sneaking around behind your back as demonstrated by the ridiculous KFC incident. He thought he'd done something he shouldn't - did it anyway - and then wouldn't tell you where he was. To me that just doesn't bode well in a relationship if you want someone mature, open and honest. It would make even make me wonder if he really was chatting to his friend for 2 hours in a car tbh.

We’re fine about staying out late but if I said I was on the train and home at 1 and DH woke up at 3 and I wasn’t there I’d expect him to be massively worried and act accordingly.

KFC thing is just weird as hell unless you were already doing separate things? Like if we were both in a mall separately getting our own stuff mine would for sure find time to fit in a mcdonald’s, but he wouldn’t just wander off from a shop without saying he was going, and neither would I.

If he doesn’t tell you where he is or where he’s gone in a shopping centre, fine text him/call him in a friendly way tell him you want to leave, don’t wait for him and then ask him to account for his whereabouts. If he doesnt turn up after a few minutes then do what you want to do, goto the car or wherever and text him something like “hey we were going to head off now, dc is getting very grumpy, do you want me to hold on or are you happy to make your own way back?x”

Is this the "cool wife" thing again? Because I don't really understand this. if me and Dh were out with the baby, none of this would be practical. eg if we had driven, there's a good chance he'd have had the car keys so how would I get home?

If DS is fractious and unhappy (depending on age of the DS obviously), it may be that I need help because I've got lots of shopping and need to go straight to sit down in a coffee shop (always awkward by yourself if you don't buy something first) or head to a baby room which might be awkward with whatever I was carrying (again, if I was with baby by myself, I'd usually limit what I would be planning to do/amount of shopping due to sheer logistics of buggy, baby, changing bag etc).

even if I could go home alone, I'd probably be annoyed as instead of getting home and sharing the load of unpacking shopping sorting ds etc, it would now all be on me because I have to wait for DH to walk or bus home.

This.

DH had the car keys, I was just standing in the middle of a busy shopping centre, no where to sit to BF feed DS. No point going to a cafe to buy a drink just to be able to sit down to feed when I know we were about to leave to go home anyway.

also, if I had messaged it’s unlikely he would have seen it, and even if he did and I said I was going home he would have just said why didn’t you wait 5 mins, what’s the rush blah blah

He's either hiding something or he's trying to make you paranoid, neither is good

No it’s not at all the cool wife thing, though I take your point it’s not always going to be practical to just carry on regardless. It probably comes down to not relying on him, or organising things under the assumption that he’s going to act how he usually acts rather than assuming he’ll act like he should act.
I’ve no doubt op is being reasonable in her expectations here, but I think just being reasonable might not get the cooperation necessary, I mean it sounds like he knows it’s annoying and unfair but he does it anyway and acts as though he’s the sinned against party. One way of dealing with that is just not putting any pressure on in as far as humanly possible, i my experience it’s the only thing that might work. The other thing is to upgrade to someone better and accept that he’s not right for you. He feels controlled, he’s being unreasonable probably, but he’s not going to be any help if interacting with his wife makes him feel like shit. I might be wrong on this, but what what I’ve seen, the dynamic being painted here is not the stuff of long term happy marriages. But- I could be wrong, maybe this is all relatively normal

@whythou111 I think your point that perhaps therefore this isn't a happy marriage is fine. But any suggestions that she should apply less pressure because he's shit is just the reason men have been getting away with this sort of behaviour for eons. MIL once told me to let it go when DH was behaving like a completely entitled prat. And all I could think is, "That's why he behaves like this - you've taught him its okay you little cow"

@MsMarch like I say, I could be wrong, and I’d probably agree with you from a societal perspective, especially with regards to parenting of boys and girls around expectations of care.

I’ve just seen the happiest couples be the ones who are quite accepting of each other, and the least happy (and as a side note, least fun to be around) just seem dissatisfied with each other all the time, like nothing the other does is truly good enough. I don’t have this issue, but I have had it previously, and focusing on being mostly kind and less demanding did work in those cases (for me, and never with abusive people because they just take advantage). The point is not that you keep acquiescing until you’re a puddle on the ground to be stepped over, the point is when your partner sees you treating them with kindness and respect (probably especially when they don’t necessarily deserve it) they do often do reciprocate, and sometimes they even go far beyond.

The problem is it’s just not the place of an adult to “raise” and correct another adult, you have to work with the person in front of you. You can tell them how you feel, you can tell them what you want but you can’t insist they be moved by you being angry or upset- if they’re not, faking it won’t make anyone feel better. Now, If you think that person is essentially mostly a selfish idiot- you might also have to accept that they are not good enough for you and not worth the compromises it would take to get things on track. The worst of both worlds I think is when you feel like they are not good enough BUT you won’t let them go because you think they owe it to you to be a less crap person.

It could be an affair.

He's not very pleasant.

It's a shame you've already had a baby with him.

@NotLactoseFree post is too long to quote, but to answer your three points:

1. Yes 'heh where are you?' Is fairly natural but it is neither natural to deny that information or insist multiple times to get it. If I asked my DP that in this context and he answered vaguely 'oh just around the corner' or 'I just dropped into a shop' or 'sorry I'll be back in 5 mins- where do you want to meet?' It would not occur to me to insist multiple times to know where he was. So I think both parts of the couple are creating this dynamic.

1. If ringing multiple times is a desperate attempt to get someone to notice the phone, then by definition it's based on the belief that the person is safe (if the problem is you don't have their attention, not that they are lying injured in a car accident). Since she didn't need anything from him at the time- just wanted to know where he was, then ringing multiple times is a way to insist on getting attention, not to ascertain safety.

1. You say she doesn't need reassurance, but then in the next sentence says she needs to know her husband is safe. That is reassurance. Different people have a very different bar for how much reassurance they need around their partner's safety and other things/ how often they jump to being fearful and taking panic responses like calling multiple times. It can be very burdensome to live with when people need that reassurance quite a lot.

Thus, what I mean by the desire for independence. Perhaps the wrong word... but essentially the desire not to have someone insisting on getting through to you multiple times when you are having a conversation with a friend, or insisting unnecessarily on knowing exactly where you are (rather than when you are back/ where you will meet up).

Scenario 1: I was with you until your update. Of course he didn’t actively call you at 2am to tell you he’s sitting outside the house. If I had a young baby and DH woke me up to tell me he’s having a conversation with a mate then I’d be absolutely furious. If he’d seen your call/message and actively ignored you then that’s cruel of him but it’s not what happened.

Scenario 2: He’s right. It’s none of your business where he is, it doesn’t effect you where he was. It effects you when he’s coming back, which he told you. It does sound weird but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong - I’d assume that you’ve probably had a go at him before and he thought he’d be in trouble.

Sorry OP, you do sound controlling but not nasty or abusive or anything. Just try to chill out and treat him like a bit more of an adult.