To ask about investment bankers

[draydee]

My DS wants to be an investment banker.

I would like to support him, but is it true there is a lot of nepotism in this industry? Or can an higher level apprenticeship or university suffice if you don't have connections?

Also why do they incite such vitriol?

Is it true they barely sleep and burn out?

I would like to give him the full picture from the experiences of others.

@maxelly thank you for your great advice.
I think it really benefits children if their parents have an understanding of different types of careers and how to enter them. I don't want to let him down by not knowing what is out there and how to navigate it. To be honest I don't.

@YumYummy yes I suppose you are spot on there. Only two weeks ago I was offered a fantastic opportunity just because I have a degree in a core subject that would give me a career.

So what is stopping them getting one?

I don't think he should go to university without a profession and a solid career path in mind

I understand your reticence but with respect you're looking at this the wrong way around. Plenty of people don't decide on their career path until long after they have finished university.

It is a daunting prospect given the cost of a university education, but its quite difficult these days to go into a high paying career without a degree. If your son is very ambitious (and if he wants to go into investment banking he sounds it), he will be at a huge disadvantage by not having a degree.

That doesn't mean its impossible, but you have to work even harder to get into these jobs without a degree than if you do, and he will have his work cut out from the start. Getting a degree, even if its not a stellar degree, gives you a much better shot at this.

M&A is very long hours and very hierarchical with boring work. Upsides are that you build lifelong friendships, earn well (and no time to spend it) and if lucky can move across into private equity and become the client. You work with highly educated people, most of whom are probably not British and usually by necessity have a good sense of humour.

not for everyone but some people really thrive in that environment and don’t mind sleeping in the coat cupboard after 4am because there’s no point in getting a cab home when they need to be back in for 10..

Well there is a reason why the cockney phrase is 'merchant banker' for wanker.

There's a lot less nepotism these days. It's a lot less jobs for the boys and only hiring the crème de la crème with relevant degrees after pretty in-depth recruitment processes. Hours are long and the stress is off the charts.

So what is stopping them getting one?
Having a mortgage to pay, looking after elderly parents, full time jobs, DC, life, it’s so much easier to get a degree when you are younger.

It is a brutal industry and you need to be highly ambitious. As well as knowledgeable, numerical and agree to have no life. If no degree then you will need exceptional work experience doing something that proves your worth . A lot of Alpha personality in these job roles.

DH isn't an investment banker but works in banking (I used to work in investment banking) he advises students to do engineering degrees as they are looking outside of the usual economics graduates as it's a lot more to do with algorithms these days apparently.

He has advised DC to do IT he said they're literally crying out for decent committed IT staff and they're the ones getting the pick of the jobs and being paid bundles. DC of course isn't at all interested.

I used to work in an investment bank but not as a trader. I would say that it’s quite rare that I came across non oxbridge degrees never mind non graduates. Might just have been my bank though

Yes it’s extremely competitive and lots of alpha males. Quite a few maths grads in my bank - does he like maths?

@draydee if your young adult is not an A grade student but is bright and sharp I would advise them to go into IT via apprenticeship. My son is very bright and well rounded but has ADHD and although he got 8 decent GCSEs including a couple of As he struggled above that as he couldn't apply himself enough. He did an IT apprenticeship in Networks and comms plus a BTEC , has moved around a bit and at 24 is on £36k , works in London and is fantastic with clients with 7 years work now under his belt. He could probably earn a bit more but got told it's likely to be £40k within 18 months and he likes the MSP that he works for.

The only realistic option if he does not want to go to University is an apprenticeship. Big 4 offer this (School Leavers program)

Yes, I would really really recommend he looks at the opportunities offered by the big accountancy firms. They are trying to increase less traditional intake routes and do offer apprenticeships, also extensive (paid) work experience programmes. I think they may have options where they pay for your uni fees in return for you working for them during holidays and for a while afterwards.

As a qualified accountant he will always have a wide range of career options. I have known newly qualified accountants who shifted across to investment banking and were able to skip the early (most brutal) years of IB - if it turns out he is still interested in IB by that stage.

I agree with the comments upthread about IB, except for the drugs - not seen that.

Really? My experience is different. Definitely much easier later in life, with a supportive employer and being able to apply real world situations to hypothetical models. (DD was 6 months old when I started my degree and I worked full time throughout. )

move known a couple of people who went from GCSE into work, then straight to MBA at a Red brick, though of course, they are quite exceptional at what they do.

Yo get back on point, I would encourage the young man to consider why he wants to work in IB, researching relevant hard and soft skills, and where he might fit. His research may well take him down a different avenue but at least it would be an informed decision and he can decide whether to get into work with an employer who is supportive of external examinations, such as relevant banking exams, or whether he really would be better going straight to university and focusing his efforts on making relevant connections there.

@maxelly interesting your take on the whole Oxbridge thing. Exactly zero if the heads of global departments or Chief execs I know or know if of several leading IBs are oxbridge grads. Several are from South Africa, Australia and US (non Ivy) Swiss, French... the Brits are a mixed bag. I can think of one who went to a second tier Scottish uni, oh actually I can think of one Oxbridge grad come to think of it. But only one. I know two heads of a global division who didn't go to uni at all!

Oh stop it. I know friends dc who went to Bath, SOAS, UCL and Notts and even one who went to Bristol West of England who all got onto graduate schemes in the past 3 years.

I don't think he should go to university without a profession and a solid career path in mind

Actually university is perfect for academic people with no career path ( really outdated term anyway!) as it is a great opportunity to get a qualification, experience and be exposed to lots of different opportunities which enhance employability and gives people breathing space to make decisions while developing skills employers love!

80% of graduate jobs don't ask for a specific degree subject. They look for graduates who possess particular attributes and skills which tend to be developed as part of a university education.

really? My experience is different. Definitely much easier later in life, with a supportive employer and being able to apply real world situations to hypothetical models. (DD was 6 months old when I started my degree and I worked full time throughout
I went to uni the month my DC started school and my DH graduated at 29. I have lots of friends unable to go later in life or able to go but have reasons not to.

My DS's friend aged 25 had an Economics Degree from
LSE and had two A*'s and an A.

They both went to a private boarding school but son's friend was as sharp as anything.
Knew that the company would have his life for x years whilst he was building himself up.

Works in London, has little spare time but knew this from the get go.

In a virtual fight or even a real fight I wouldnt bet against this chap. He is driven but very charming to me (so that's OK!)

You almost need to have it in your blood. As for that video - words fail me.
If you want to earn lots of money go for it but there will be a high price to pay for it.

You dont earn £200k plus for just turning up.

I completely disagree with the idea that you shouldn't go to uni unless you have a career path in mind.
I had no clue what I wanted to do, but had inklings of areas I was interested in, so went to uni with a subject that played to that. During and post degree, I experimented a bit with various industries and found one I loved. Without my degree I would have found it difficult to enter and having my first degree allowed me to get the relevant qualifications as a 1year masters while working and so I advanced quickly. I wouldn't have had the time or money or start from scratch and get a first degree at that point in time- but a masters was very doable.

Is he wanting to go into it for the money or does he have a genuine interest in financial markets/ economics etc. If it is just the money he is interested he may struggle.

@minipie yes I have been looking into these for him since he mentioned being an accountant. I read some of the testimonials and I thought they were really good.

The thing is I am sure every man and his dog applies and you can only try. I imagine the competition is fierce. You need a back up plan for your back up plan if he didn't get accepted by any of them.

I'm not sure who mentioned about their son doing an IT apprenticeship but thank you for the tip. It's great he found something he enjoys with a good salary.

My son has always had a flair for maths. I do pay for a tutor, so I'm not sure if that means he wouldn't be able to do Maths at Uni, as he can't have private tuition for a degree.

I'm not even sure what an IT career is? My DS isn't great at computers I don't think.

I vaguely know someone who is in risk analysis in a bank. I think he has a good work/life balance and is well paid. Not sure what degree you would need for that?

@mum2bee2022 For the money probably and because he's always been good xxx maths.

It's not just IB though, he said accountancy too. I just asked about IB here as I knew many would have experiences of it and would give the full picture. I thought accountancy was a better idea for him and from the replies here I think I was right.

OP, could I suggest your DS looks into fund manager roles? You can earn vast amounts of money (equivalent to investment banking) and the hours are generally 9-5.