To wonder about the political landscape of Europe?

[AspireMe]

Italy I'm not really surprised with regarding their politics, but Sweden!! Sweden was always upheld as the liberal utopia of Europe, what's going on!? Is it a rejection of mainstream media and the messages they publish? Are people turning their backs on the Left because they feel they aren't being listened to? Immigration? It's not just unique to these two countries, it's a pattern being repeated over the continent, and elsewhere.

I wonder if this is just a natural swing of the political pendulum or something deeper. And what the response will be.

The left need to get their shit together. Labour will probably win the next GE anyway but a lot of the stuff they do is a major turnoff to normal people. Look at all the furore today about the National Anthem being played at the Labour conference. Why doesn't anyone think about what kind of message this sends out to the wider electorate?

I think Labour will win by default. Which is pretty awful. For the first time, I don't think I'll vote.

Yes, i live in Puglia, although the locals would be quick to correct me and say, no, you live on the Salento. Who knows what she's about? Time will tell. Everyone I've spoken with thinks it has more to do with the COVID restrictions than anything else. Having mandatory vaccination for over 50s, showing a green pass to go to work, and the strictness of the lockdowns, where a step too far for many Italians. I think they wanted to give the establishment a strong push back. That's certainly the feeling I get from the thirty something, previously left wing folk that I know. My wife's uncle is a councillor for Forza Nuova, the most far right party there is here, and he's been saying there will be a right wing government for years. One thing I feel, politics doesn't define you so strongly here. In the UK, if I supported the BNP, or UKIP, it would be a strong, defining part of my character. Here, not so much. Many right wing people have close friends who are as far left, as they are right. They get drunk and shout a lot, but it doesn't seem so personal as in the UK. It's less character defining somehow. They disagree, but remain friends. I always put it down to coalition governments being the norm, politics in Italy seems very fluid & transitory.

Yeah, if the Swedes just close their eyes and ignore the rapes, murders, gang wars and grenade attacks, everything will be OK in the end.

Once those backwards Swedes learn to treat their women like shit and throw gays off buildings then the migrants will fit right in.

Do you actually believe that shite you wrote?

Honestly, right and left, I think people hated him on the whole. I've literally never met a Draghi fan! I think a lot of people took his approach to COVID as a power trip.

I don't think any political party should be singing songs about saving the bloody monarch tbh.

One thing I feel, politics doesn't define you so strongly here.

And yet ... Mussolini

All the policies that are considered "far right" these days would have just been normal, common-sense 20-30 years ago. Just shows how much the Overton Window has moved and how batshit crazy things have become.

I'm amazed at how many people here openly defend Mussolini. Many say he was the most popular leader the country has ever had. My point is more about social acceptance. You can think what you like here, support who you like, it seems less character defining somehow. They're more likely to think you're a twat for the football team you support than for your politics. Just a difference I've noticed with the UK, and obviously not everyone.

Not my experience at all. Maybe I'm in a different part of Italy.
Where I am, Meloni and her "I'm Giorgia, I'm a woman, a mother and a Christian" mantra ticks the boxes for the racists and homophobes.

There's nothing new under the sun, and the people voting for FdI are the sort of people who, if British, would be all out on the "immigrants, coming over here, taking our jobs" shit.

I've never spoken to anyone who has cited Covid restrictions and vaccine mandates as a reason to vote in FdI.

This this this!!
and might I add, a large number of immigrants in the nordics flat out refuse to learn the language, our older generation can’t go out anymore without having to speak English which they might never have learnt.

Beautifully put four tea.

Twenty years ago Tony Blair was Prime Minister. Tax credits came in. WTAF are you talking about?
Twenty or thirty years ago BNF had policies that are rather similar to today's Tories.

I can't believe that someone could live in a country 30 years plus and could not speak a word of the national language. Surely they would watch tv , go out shopping , hear other members of their family speaking ?

I've lived in Sweden, Sweden going right doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

I think people think Sweden is some weird land of rainbows and acceptance because they make cheap furniture and look happy in the adverts for said furniture 🤣

Swedish people had enough of the immigration 10 years ago, never mind now that they have gang warfare going on. Swedish people are very protective of their heritage, their land, language and identity. They believe it's being eroded, so yeah going right is no surprise to me.

IndiGlowie I think you are rather naive. I went to a wedding a few years ago in the UK. The bride was Chinese and her parents had lived here for 45 years and the mother did not speak English at all, she had only worked and socialised with other Chinese people. Her daughter had to translate for her. Similarly a friend's uncle came from Italy and worked in kitchens in London for decades. I met him when he was in his 70's and he had never learned to speak or read English.

It’s a reaction to the Liberal, PC, Woke society by the white population that feel their influence and culture is being eroded, it’s the same in the US with Trump supporters.

As others have said, it is because the vocal left have tried to minimise there historic voter base in favour of multi national globalisation, there is a reason why the left leaning Danes won with a strong policy on limiting immigiration.

The taboo subjects that have previously been silenced by calling out as racist, has had the the same slippery slope effect that was considered a conspiracy only a few years ago (look at Brown in the UK) so some are not even bothering to associate the word.

As for Italy, everyone who has any kind of italian routes know that they always vote for a 'revolution' and there goverments don't really last that long, but there is growing concern that has been ignored, the covid lockdowns have hit hard in some 'left' leaning circles when China decided to blame them for the outbreak and considering Italies far right has been gaining ground for well over a decade is why people need to be realistic with the calls for PR, those calling for PR are thinking it would bring in a left leaning government, what they don't expect is something like Denmark or Sweden where there will be difficult conversations to be had and it can't be brushed under the carpet as being a daily mail reader racist gammon, or burnt gammon if you are of a different skin tone as my first gen immigrant Mother and Father.

No they're not. The furthest right party in Sweden is the Moderaterna. They're like the tory party before the ERG took control. So the 'far right' in Sweden is more left than the right in the UK

The UK media incorrectly portray the Sverigedemokraterna as extreme right wing because they're all batshit racists but politically they're a centre right party.

I don't know anything about Sweden other than what I read as I've never been, nor know any Swedish people. But the fact you mentioned 10 years surprises me, because round about the time of the referendum I remember Sweden being touted as progressive and people pointing to the country as an example of stark contrast to the UK's attitude towards immigration, which was what was said to have fuelled the vote in the first place.

Are any of these parties further right than the current ERG wing of the Conservatives that we have?

Not quite but it is different, for example if the tory party came out with wanting to limiting immigration the way Swedish and Denmarks gov have done MN would be full on 1000 post threads of us turning into 1930's germany, they have a better balance of discussion.

Trying to bring up the ERG as the UK being right wing really shows your lack of understanding of what is happening not only within the EU but globally, it's a very anglo/uk centric point of view.

This is sort of what I was expecting. The UK is the country which were so eurosceptical that they left the EU, we are the problem.

I can't believe that someone could live in a country 30 years plus and could not speak a word of the national language. Surely they would watch tv , go out shopping , hear other members of their family speaking ?

Thee are thousands of people in England that fit this description. A word, possibly. Carry out a conversation? No.
Before streaming, they watched DVDs and tapes of films in their home language. Shop in places where their home language is spoken, or rely on younger generations to translate. Many came here to work in factories and sweat shops and had no need to speak English, so they didn’t. Lived in ghetto areas and didn’t feel safe mixing outside the area.

It’s immigration. It’s ALWAYS immigration.

Look at all the furore today about the National Anthem being played at the Labour conference

I think Keir Starmer did that as a litmust test of Labour’s view on the monarchy. If they sang along then leave the monarchy alone but if they refused to sing and booed, then include abolishing the monarchy in their manifesto at the next election.