There is no ambulance service anymore

[Snog]

Twice so far this year NHS111 have told me that my dd needs paramedics to attend for severe chest and abdominal pain and that they are on their way.

Both times the ambulance service called me later and said they would not be attending that night as too busy.

I am posting this because I want people to know that there is no functional ambulance service any more.

If you need an ambulance try to take your loved one to hospital yourself instead. This could save their life.

Obviously when you get to hospital good luck with that but at least you are not waiting for an ambulance that will never come.

There are Ambulances and paramedics, they are just stuck for their whole shift sitting outside A&E as they can't offload their patients. If they can drop off and turn around quickly they can get to the next emergency.

When you see the A&E waiting times at some Scottish hospitals , unless I was dying I probably wouldn't bother.
In some cases people have been in A&E 84 hours ffs. If the ambulances are outside with patients still in them waiting to be triaged because there is literally no space in the hospitals themselves then what can they do?
I really don't know what the answer is but Nicola Sturgeon apologising doesn't mean much imo.

As pp said one of the main issues is lack of social care and lack of places for ready to discharge but needing a social care /place at a nursing home patients.

I do believe there are deep problems. I can't see how they are going to get any better. But all the people I know who have needed an ambulance recently were fine.

@Snog I empathise with your experience, however, as you know, the NHS are at the mercy of the government - specifically the Department for health and social care

please channel your anger into complaining to your MP, then to the independent Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman or Local Government Ombudsman, if you are not satisfied with the way your complaint has been dealt with.

if you haven’t already seen it, the long running series ‘Ambulance’ on BBC one, past series can be found on iPlayer, illustrate perfectly what has changed since the wonderful NHS first introduced the ambulance service as we know it today.

as someone up thread said, this is exactly what the government want, they want you to get upset at the NHS without you making the connection to government. They want it to breakdown, with the public agreeing that it’s not fit for purpose, they will then replace it with a private model which makes money for the government and those that get rich from decisions like this.

Our country is already facing a dire time, just imagine what life would be like with no NHS as we know it and the costs that would create from a population already struggling with rising costs on all fronts.

Some good advice on here, luckily I am a nurse so have good assessment and treatment skills in certain situations. The problem is for ordinary people to work out who can safely be taken to A&E. For example I do know where the nearest defibrillators are, I ensure I have plenty of dressings, pain relief and anti histamine.

It would also be useful if the general public had more first aid skills, it is something I believe should be taught in schools.
So clearly if someone has broken a hip/back they need an ambulance, someone with breathing problems too.
It is broken but sadly we all need to think about how we might get a loved one to A&E if needed.
Ambulances do come but some areas are so badly affected. It would help if we knew which ones.

Interesting. As above I called an ambulance several times for DH on the instructions of GP. Once the GP called them himself because DH was insisting he didn't need one. The ambulance crews were all really disparaging about the GPs, feeling that they often used ambulances to avoid doing their own jobs/taking responsibility for a patient.

Obviously not very professional of the crews and they may well be completely wrong, but there was clearly a lot of frustration.

@AnotherPidgey
There clearly are issues in ambulance provision resulting from issues throughout the NHS chain, but the service exists and is patchy.

I disagree, we are really well staffed at the moment, with a fairly new inexperienced workforce, as they keep recruiting, and it makes no difference, more ambulances would just mean more vehicles waiting outside A&E, and we have long since run out of parking spaces.

The problem is a lack of social care provision, which is a problem of inequality in the workplace and thinking that it is acceptable to treat women (it is predominantly women) like crap in order to "care"(women know your place), with inadequate pay, terms and conditons. No wonder so few people want to do it.

Pay social carers properly, give them the respect they deserve, discharge patients from hospital, releasing the back log of bed blocking patients in order to release the back log of "lodger" patients in A&E, to then release the ambulances from outside, so that we can do the job we are trained and employed to do, by caring for patients in the pre-hospital environment, not the hospital car park.

Mumsnet is full.of people who say Don bother the nice heroes. Funny how the leftist angry mamma's on here have done so much to help Boris finish off the already dead duck that was the NHS.

I agree OP. And the "you're wrong cos we got an ambulance in 30 mins posters" - you are very, very fortunate. Wait times here are hours, even with child with possible spinal fracture in our case. Massive numbers of people now wait 4+ hours. The NHS is broken, thanks Tories.

Earlier this year DM (mid 80s) had a stroke and was found lying on the floor. Ambulance called and 'was on its way'. One hour later, still nothing. So DB and neighbours carried her to a car and drove her to hospital.

I still wonder how much the delay contributed to her death.

Often, I think people call the ambulance because they think they’ll be seen quicker than if they go to a&e.

I just hate the fact that there won't be any discussion & by default we will end up with an American system.

I had to call 999 last night as my DD started bleeding a lot from her mouth for no reason (she disabled and non verbal).
First responder was here in minutes.
First ambulance was about 20 minutes but it was just one paramedic so he had to wait for another ambulance to come so they could take us to A and E. I’d have gone via car if it was anyway safe but there is a definite problem with shortages staff on the ward as well as ambulances .

I have many problems with the staff in our local hospital (was assaulted by a doctor there) but sometimes the NHS are fantastic.

such a shame how it’s going at the minute

I haven't read the full thread but agree. My GP called an ambulance for me recently and it took 6 hours to arrive for something that could have been life threatening. I asked if I should have driven to hospital instead and they said not to in that condition, so it's hard to know what to do. I really worry for people having something more critical like a stroke.

We're in the North East and my personal experiences of calling 999 I found them very good. My mam has severe COPD and I have had to phone and ambulance on 3 occasions when she was in a very bad way. 2x they came within 5-10 minutes 3rd time call handler said they were very busy and to expect a 60 minute wait however, it came in about 10. The ambulance staff were so wonderful aswell I can't thank them enough.

I also had to phone an ambulance at the scene of a bad car accident and they were there in minutes.

Yes a good book on the origin of the care crisis is Labours of Love by Marilyn Bunting

amp.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/09/labours-of-love-by-madeleine-bunting-review-a-humbling-book-about-care

It's happening already, I know 3 people who went private for ops because the NHS wait was too long. Both my mum & DH were told by their GPs to go private for what they need if they can as the wait is too long.

I read an article recently where an
NHS boss was having a stroke and her
Husband had to drive her to hospital because there were no ambulances.

The NHS is in total crisis thanks to the tories and it's the masses that suffer.

I think the OP is being honest and realistic.

Because moving an unstable child with breathing issues and no access to piped oxygen is actually very dangerous..

It’s not scaremongering. It’s literally being choked of resources so that we beg for privatisation.

I agree the healthcare system is on its arse. Even if you are a priority doesn’t always ensure an ambulance in a timely manor.

Last year A family member collapsed and stopped breathing, ambulance was called. Their spouse was instructed to do CPR but was told ambulance was 45 minutes away.
Family member started breathing but stopped again soon after. CPR was given again but to no avail, was pronounced dead when the ambulance eventually did arrive.
There’s no guarantee that the outcome would have been any different if the paramedics had arrived quickly but something we will never know.

These calls will be triaged out by the Clinical desk paramedics, nurses and Advanced practitioners listening in and filtering calls.

The few that slip through the net and are sent a paramedic will be swiftly dispatched to A&E via patients own transport (relatives car) or taxi. A handful seen by double EMT crews, whose hands are tied with regard to discharging/alternative transport options, will get a lift to hospital, and put straight into the waiting room and queue for triage.

But these days it is not a particularly common thing, and robust systems are in place to deal with it in a way that didn't exist a decade ago.

@Bikeybikeface

Often, I think people call the ambulance because they think they’ll be seen quicker than if they go to a&e

Well they can call an ambulance. But it won’t come if it’s not something serious, they will be told to make their own way. so people who do that are not in any way responsible for the lack of ambulances. I wonder why you think they are.