There is no ambulance service anymore

[Snog]

Twice so far this year NHS111 have told me that my dd needs paramedics to attend for severe chest and abdominal pain and that they are on their way.

Both times the ambulance service called me later and said they would not be attending that night as too busy.

I am posting this because I want people to know that there is no functional ambulance service any more.

If you need an ambulance try to take your loved one to hospital yourself instead. This could save their life.

Obviously when you get to hospital good luck with that but at least you are not waiting for an ambulance that will never come.

[Devilishpyjamas]

The 111 algorithm needs rewriting. It was written in a time when there were better services and social care wasn’t about to collapse (impacting on hospitals). I doubt it particularly affects waiting times though as in busy times those people will be in the position you are and simply not get an ambulance, if people are waiting an hour or two after a stroke knee pain is not going to get anywhere - however serious. And that then leaves people in the awful situation you were in.

They may be wising up a bit though. 111 decided my middle son needed to present at A&E within an hour - they asked him if he could make his own way (yes) because that was likely to be faster.

[CornishTiger]

After seeing the delays and difficulties over the last two years first hand with a neighbour I’m now firmly of the opinion get them to hospital yourself if you can. And tell 999 you are.

Know where all the defibrillator are locally and how to access and use them too.

[EgonsShell]

@Snog You are not scaremongering at all, sadly the the folk that are accusing you of this just don't want to hear the reality of what's actually going on (I work for the CQC).

[rockyg]

I actually think it's crazy they reversed the new h&s levy, it's needed!

[DickDarstedly]

One of my students collapsed with what turned out to be a burst appendix. He was unconscious. I had to hold on to the ambulance call controller for 45 minutes while he continually got me to check his breathing etc. in the end I was told there were no ambulances available (in London). This wasn’t really triaging it was just that there really were none available. He then advised me to take the student to A and E immediately by myself and that he would alert them so we could be admitted straight away. I took the student by myself in the car and when we arrived he was taken straight to surgery.

My DM waited, lying in the floor for 6 hours with a broken hip. I started a thread about it here on MN at the time because I was sick with worry.

I find it incredibly upsetting and disturbing that some people here are dismissing or normalising these real experiences. I have lived and worked in several other countries. This would never have happened there. The situation we are in right now should not be happening in a modern, decent and civilised society.

It is time for us to stop dismissing and normalising this crisis. It’s also not helpful to just endlessly swap horror stories and become helpless and fearful. It’s time to be really, really angry that this is happening in a modern society.

[LuciferRising]

Absolutely is not scare mongering. The NHS and social care is shot to pieces. There needs to be creative ways to sort it out but the Government and those accountable are simply not fit to come up with them.

They need to assemble the best people, regardless of age etc to sort it out.

Unfortunately I don't believe there is a single party good enough at the moment.

[Nonimai]

I wouldn’t say it is dead in deference to the paramedics drivers etc but it’s definitely on its last legs. I had a heart issue - 6 hours later they arrived and said I had had a heart attack. we waited outside the local hospital for 4 hours. I wasn’t seen for over 24 hours, no triage, nothing.

[rockyg]

@FixTheBone nice user name!

[TheRubyRedshoes]

On our local FB Someone said they fell right outside Doc's and someone obviously asked if a doc cld help.

Others said similar experiences and doc said no ,call ambulance.

Lady only hurt her face and with help from office staff from a different shop she was able to get home.

[Sothis]

Our neighbour called an ambulance for a (badly) cut finger because her DH needed to take the kids to school and therefore “couldn’t” take her to ED which is about a 10 minute drive away

[Octomore]

I don’t know why hospitals can’t build a large waiting facility with rows of beds and nurses on duty, so the ambulances can drop the patient and go.

Because they wouldn't be able to staff it. Surely this is obvious?

When hospitals have no beds, they're no normally talking about physical beds. They're talking about having the staff to safely supervise the patients who would go in the beds. And those staff don't exist.

[Octomore]

I don’t know why hospitals can’t build a large waiting facility with rows of beds and nurses on duty, so the ambulances can drop the patient and go.

Because they wouldn't be able to staff it. Surely this is obvious?

When hospitals have no beds, they're no normally talking about physical beds. They're talking about having the staff to safely supervise the patients who would go in the beds. And those staff don't exist.

[CharlotteRose90]

it depends on your priority. So far this year I’ve had an ambulance called out 4 times and each time I’ve waited less then 2 hours. All for different things. Please don’t try and scare people with False information.

[lickenchugget]

111 can’t actually dispatch ambulances, as far as I
know. Twice they have told me they’ve requested one for DC, but the the ambulance service rings you separately and triages the request. In my case, they have then sent the ambulance, but it’s clear they’ve been exasperated at 111 ‘promising’ ambulances without checking with 999 if it’s necessary or available.

[rockyg]

Please don’t try and scare people with False information.

ok Trump

[lickenchugget]

And both ambulances came within 15 minutes once they were
actually dispatched by the ambulance service (not 111)

[Octomore]

@DickDarstedly

One of my students collapsed with what turned out to be a burst appendix. He was unconscious. I had to hold on to the ambulance call controller for 45 minutes while he continually got me to check his breathing etc. in the end I was told there were no ambulances available (in London). This wasn’t really triaging it was just that there really were none available. He then advised me to take the student to A and E immediately by myself and that he would alert them so we could be admitted straight away. I took the student by myself in the car and when we arrived he was taken straight to surgery.

My DM waited, lying in the floor for 6 hours with a broken hip. I started a thread about it here on MN at the time because I was sick with worry.

I find it incredibly upsetting and disturbing that some people here are dismissing or normalising these real experiences. I have lived and worked in several other countries. This would never have happened there. The situation we are in right now should not be happening in a modern, decent and civilised society.

It is time for us to stop dismissing and normalising this crisis. It’s also not helpful to just endlessly swap horror stories and become helpless and fearful. It’s time to be really, really angry that this is happening in a modern society.

100% agree

[notalwaysalondoner]

I totally agree with you, and would never never wait for an ambulance now unless the person in question was either unconscious or unable to be moved due to risk of broken spine. Possible exception of if you live super super far from a hospital (but then ambulance service likely to be very patchy too).

My granny had a fall and was waiting out in the cold on the concrete outside her flat for hours for an ambulance. She’s 99. Would have been much better to take her in ourselves.

It does exist though - my friend’s baby got blue lighted in the other day due to breathing issues, he was very premature though and had some very obvious symptoms that could be high risk. So they do exist but if you’re not high high priority you’re screwed.

[Perfect28]

An ambulance crew saved my baby's life. You never know when you will need their help. Private care doesn't cover emergency life saving care so it's time that everyone started caring about this.

[3partypics]

Some of it is weirdly strict rules that 111 and NHS in general have, which make sense on paper but in reality make no sense at all.

111 always give quite extreme advice imo, very very risk averse which is likely for fear of being sued more than risk of patient safety.

We had to make a couple of trips to kids A&E recently because of a minor issue that the GP practice and nurse station said they weren't trained or allowed to do anymore. Once there we seen so many ambulances held up because they were transporting someone who then had to wait to be triaged. One woman required an interpreter so that meant it was going to be a few hours wait despite it being really quiet, so the paramedic had to stay with her. He didn't speak her language either but he had to wait until she was officially transferred to the hospital. Why not just put her in a bay and let the paramedic crack on? All the staff involved on all sides were chatting and agreeing what madness it is, yet they couldn't do anything else for risk of their jobs.

The NHS is underfunded, the staff in the main do wonderful jobs, but the management of it is truly awful.

[OLP2019]

I do often wonder if people call for an ambulance when it's not needed and cause back ups
In the country I live there is an emergency room (A and E) but also urgent care walk ins so I think those take care of many of the walking injuries that are need to be taken care of but are not classed as an emergency

[KangarooKenny]

There are people calling ambulances when they could actually take the person in their car or a taxi. Ambulances are for those who need immediate life saving help, amd/or need transportation to hospital.

[NCFT0922]

@Hearthnhome agree. This has been happening since at least the late 90s. This is not a new problem.

[Betty000]

They come when its life or death, believe me. They go to those whose life's are actually at risk first.

[Devilishpyjamas]

@FixTheBone

This is all about discharge from hospital social care, something that the tories, by reversing the national insurance rise, have just defunded without saying it loud.

I'm an orthopaedic surgeon, we normally have around 30-40 patients in the hospital, we currently have 96, of those, 40 are waiting for a rehab or nursing bed, or for things like equipment or care packages to be arranged so they can go home.

Because of that, people are waiting for literally days in A&E or Admissions wards, tying up physical space and nursing staff, so when someone arrives that can't be handed over, the paramedics have to stay with them - sometimes for a whole shift, or longer.

There might be slightly fewer paramedics than 5 or 10 years ago, but the real problem is they can't do their job because the whole system is jammed.

100%

I work in social care and have never known it as bad. My friends working in social care in different companies all say the same. There are no staff. I will spend a chunk of time tomorrow trying to cover a bunch of shifts for the upcoming week for someone who has very high support needs.

A lot if companies are handing back contracts as they just do not have the staff to cover and keep people safe.

So people who don’t need hospital get stuck (which is hideous in itself - a more restrictive environment than they need to be in). And ambulances queuing up outside are the visible symptom of a system that is collapsing.