AIBU to sleep train my clingy toddler?

[FuschiaEmerald]

We recently tried the Supernanny method with 2yo DS where you repeatedly take him back in his room and put him into bed and walk away. Supernanny didn't mention the bit where the child cries so much they they shake and make themselves vomit, and that you would be at it non-stop for hours.

DS has been through a massive change in his little life, with moving country, leaving his friends, starting a new nursery and missing his daddy very much who is away for work. My formerly independent little pickle is now very clingy, crying and following me if I leave the room for anything. We are also moving again very soon so I decided not to bother sleep training him now.

However, I am now at the point where I am lying with him on his bedroom floor for an hour every night to get him to sleep. He will then sleep for an hour and then wake up and cry until I go to (my) bed with him. Then he wakes up every few hours and cries.

I NEED the time in the evenings to get the housework done, and I need to sleep. Does anyone have any advice? Should I bite the bullet and sleep train him? Will it help him become more independent? Or is it cruel when he's got so much going on in his little life?

Sleep train him. This sounds completely overwhelming for you!

His little world has been turned upside down. Your the one constant thing in his life and he is seeking reassurance from you. Give him the reassurance he needs and he will then settle down again.

Hmm, I’d probably give it a bit longer, as you say, things are unsettled for him.

I think I’d modify Jo’s advice and stay in his room but not into your bed. I know lots of MNetters like co sleeping but it was awful for us - just got kicked all night long, no one got much sleep and the sleep you did get was patchy and poor quality.

But we had this with our DS, he’d go down fine but wake a couple of hours later and refuse to go back in his cot. He vomited as well. It was horrific but when we trained him it only took one night to sort. It really takes a toll on you when you can never really clock off.

Yup. It’s not easy but I’d prioritise an unhappy unsettled very young child over housework. The more you’re present to reassure and settle him the quicker he’ll realise life is okay despite the changes he’s been through.

Usually I’d say sleep train him, although sounds like he’s very overwhelmed with lots of changes at the moment, so it’s a tough one as he needs your reassurance, but completely understand you need to get things done. How long until you move again and things settle down? I think once he’s settled in his long term place is the best time for it but understand if that’s too long to wait.

We move next week. He will be changing nurseries again. This will be the last move for us though, forever I hope. How long do I wait after we move? The clinginess/floor sleeping routine has been going on for 4 weeks now. Do you think carry on for 4 weeks the other side of the move while he gets settled in new home and nursery then start with the sleep training?

Personally with everything going on for him right now I would say don't try until he settles down a little through the day.
However I totally get that you need the time in the evening.

We had a nightmare with DC1 and bedtimes. Sleep training just didn't work. Either supernanny style, the slow retreat thing, etc. Finally we tried a book "The Rabbit Who Couldn't Sleep".
The first time I read it 3 times before he went to sleep, that dropped quickly and eventually he didn't need the full book. Then he'd made the association between book and sleeping and would drop off during any book.
It's probably not going to work for every child, but absolutely worth a shot in this situation I'd say.

He's had so much going on bless his heart. You can't leave him if he gets that upset. When you say "we" does your partner help? Can they do the housework?

@AnneLovesGilbert well of course but OP is alone her DP is working away and she is allowed some time to have a breather even if it’s 30 mins in an evening. And some ‘housework’ is essential - I have a newborn and even I have to put her down to wash some clothes and hang them out to dry sometimes, and load the dishwasher so I have a clean cup to drink from and a clean pan to make food in! Plus it Must be miserable for the child as well, he sounds completely sleep deprived. There are ways to help a child sleep that don’t involve having them literally attached to you from 7pm each night and are also caring and kind. @FuschiaEmerald could you maybe get a sleep consultant in? My friend used one when her 18month old snd 4 year old were basically tag teaming her all night and then being awful in the day through tiredness, she’s very attachment parenting co sleeping etc but realised it just wasn’t working . They had it cracked in about a week with no screaming etc. Maybe ask around if there’s any local to you or you could use zoom to have a quick chat with one for ideas?

I have a book about going to sleep that seemed to have helped too. Apologies i can't remember the exact name now but it was good to add to the routine.

4 weeks is no time at all.

Ah sorry missed that daddy is away.

Hmm..

Can you afford a cleaner for a bit?

Your poor little boy. So many changes in his little life that he can't possibly understand - he needs all the comfort and attention you can possibly give him. Put yourself in his shoes!

It makes me feel so incredibly sad to know that some people advocate for sleep training that causes little ones to cry so much that they vomit. They simply don’t understand what’s happening. He’s had comfort from you to sleep his whole life up until now and then it’s being suddenly removed and he’s being marched back to his bedroom and left to cry when he tries to seek that comfort once more.
I always liken it to adults - I’d be so upset if my husband one night decided he didn’t want to sleep beside me anymore and if I cried because of this ignored my sadness. People will say there is a difference between a romantic couple and a mother and child, which indeed there is, but in the circumstance to make the comparison of either an adult or a child having their comfort removed I think is a worthwhile thought. He loves you, had relied on you for comfort until now, but suddenly you have decided you don’t wish to comfort him to sleep anymore and he’s supposed to be able to accept that. Of course he won’t.

Saying all of this, I understand sleep deprivation is absolutely horrendous. I understand we get to a point we need time by ourselves. Have you tried a floor bed in his room? That way you can comfort him to sleep and then leave to your own bed once he’s dropped off? Of course he may still need comfort in the night but at least you’d be able to return to your own room for rest in between. I think this is a much kinder way of gradually reducing the need for your presence during the night. Please don’t just walk away from your crying child.

Sorry, just realised that it's "the rabbit who wants to fall asleep".

Try giving him a little kiss on his hand to look after in the night?

This is such a hard situation, you have my sympathy.

Why are you on the bedroom floor though?

Mine used to like having me with him when he went to sleep, we’d snuggle up in his bed and read books and then once he was asleep I’d get up again and go back downstairs. If he woke in the night I’d get in with him again and give him a cuddle and he’d drift back off to sleep in a few minutes. Once he realised I was always going to be there and he didn’t have to worry about being alone at night, he started sleeping through and has been a good sleeper since.

I’d be wary of sleep training a child who’s already unsettled and distressed, you could make things worse. It sounds like he needs lots of love and reassurance right now. Is he worried that you’re going to start going away a lot like his dad has?

Thank you for your comments. DS used to sleep very well in his cot before our international move. We used to be able to put him down sleepy and leave the room. I think definitely all the disruption and change has unsettled him.

I am going to continue staying with him until he falls asleep for 4 weeks after our next (and final) move. I will get a chair and sit in his room rather than lie on the floor next to him (I can't fit in his bed, and I want him to get used to falling asleep without me touching him.)

Once he seems more settled, I will try again with the supernanny technique until he falls asleep independently again. It's hard to have no time to myself but only a short-term measure.

Exactly this. Poor baby

OP, can I ask why you’re set on using the “supernanny” method when it’s caused your child so much upset before? As far as I can see, the Super Nanny gives very outdated advice and I don’t know what qualifications she holds but I don’t think she’s as super as her name suggest.
It’s not a one size fits all unfortunately when it comes to babies, I would suggest researching other ways for your family to get a more restful night.

I'm always open to suggestions and I will read around. The 'Supernanny' method or variations of it is I have most commonly seen when doing research via Google. It is very important to me that eventually DS is able to fall asleep independently without me needing to be present. Other methods that involve moving chairs further and further out of rooms or star charts have not worked for us.

Would a new cuddly toy help when you make the next move? We did this with ds and explained that he was a special sleep bear that helped you sleep, looked after you at night etc. ds still had him on his bed now at 15. Might be worth a try to make him feel safe and comforted.

Funny you should mention a special sleep toy as I have just done exactly that! I let him choose it and it arrived today so wish me luck.

As a person who has had a few toddlers through the doors who have been through traumatic times I would beg you not to sleep train. Give him the time and comfort he needs and sleep will come to him. He's not doing this to be naughty or to try to get one over on you, he is expressing his confusion and uncertainty about things that are happening in his life. I am a foster carer and go through this to varying degrees with most of the babies and toddlers who come to me and we go through it again when they leave.

Poor little boy. He isn't a dog that can be "trained."