AIBU to sleep train my clingy toddler?

[FuschiaEmerald]

We recently tried the Supernanny method with 2yo DS where you repeatedly take him back in his room and put him into bed and walk away. Supernanny didn't mention the bit where the child cries so much they they shake and make themselves vomit, and that you would be at it non-stop for hours.

DS has been through a massive change in his little life, with moving country, leaving his friends, starting a new nursery and missing his daddy very much who is away for work. My formerly independent little pickle is now very clingy, crying and following me if I leave the room for anything. We are also moving again very soon so I decided not to bother sleep training him now.

However, I am now at the point where I am lying with him on his bedroom floor for an hour every night to get him to sleep. He will then sleep for an hour and then wake up and cry until I go to (my) bed with him. Then he wakes up every few hours and cries.

I NEED the time in the evenings to get the housework done, and I need to sleep. Does anyone have any advice? Should I bite the bullet and sleep train him? Will it help him become more independent? Or is it cruel when he's got so much going on in his little life?

[Duplocrocs]

Have you tried or think he would be responsive to a Yoto or similar? When my son moved into his toddler bed from his cot, he got to pick a Yoto and some stories on the understanding that he could listen to it once we had left the room to fall asleep to. It has been used every night for the last 3 years.

[Chumbibi]

OP this sounds really tough. It’s hard to balance it all when you just need sometime to yourself and to get stuff done around the house. Try to ignore comments about how cruel sleep training is. Co-sleeping is not for everyone. And I can’t stand the self righteousness of some parents. We are all just trying to do what works for our own families.

I also think unless you’re prepared to co sleep until the child is ready to stop which could be as PP said 6 years+ then it’s actually cruel on the child as you’re not giving them the tools and supports to sleep independently but instead making them over reliant on their parents. Although some parents like this.

anyway! Your son is going through a lot of change but that being said he needs his sleep. One thing my DD who is 2 needs, is always to have her door open, and to be able to hear us clattering around for a bit either upstairs or downstairs. She also has a nightlight. So she knows we are around and if she needs us she calls for us.

What it is his routine like? If he’s got the energy to really fight bedtime I’m wondering if his day needs looking at? Does he still nap? If so how long for? Does he got to nursery/get plenty of opportunity to burn off energy?

[AloysiusBear]

How many teenagers do you know who still fall asleep holding onto their parents?

I know 3 6 year olds who do. Every night. Their parents are broken,they can never go out or do anything of an evening. One said to me last month "how did i get this so wrong?"

Yes you should comfort a child who need it but why are all these children so scared of sleeping in warm safe house with their mum or dad just across the hall/downstairs? You arent leaving them alone you are only downstairs!! These aren't babies who need to cry for attention, these are toddlers and children who can call for you or come to your room if they need you.

[LazJaz]

Just to add to the above as I’m seeing a lot of comments that assume any method of “sleep training” is about leaving a child to cry and learn that they are not cared for when it is not convenient
this is absolutely NOT case for Batelle - it’s the opposite of CIO. Your child is never left to cry, not even for a moment. Your child will never be left thinking that they are not your first priority. Your child will learn that you the adult have control of their sleep conditions, and they are safe in their sleep space, that their job is to choose to sleep. You maintain boundaries that keep them physically and emotionally safe.

There are comments in PP suggesting that mothers need to sacrifice themselves on the alter of co-sleeping of they risk traumatising their children.
Speaking from my own experience (2 career household. I am the primary earner with a “big job” but my husband also has a high pressure role) - we tried this. We tried the world in which mummy got up with the toddler at 5am, worked all day exhausted, got into bed with toddler at 2030. No one slept very well, my work suffered, our romantic relationship was non existent, I had no time for myself. my mental health declined to the extent that I was signed off work and proscribed SSRIs, and our toddler was still exhausted all the time and his behavior so extreme that autism was considered. We were all traumatised by poor sleep despite co sleeping. We struggled without sleep until he was 26 months - the toll was considerable.

the Batelle method has made us all happier - the troubling behaviors my son exhibited have largely disappeared, suggesting they were connected to his exhaustion and possible anxiety about boundaries and our own state at home.
There were moments which our son did not prefer during the process but he always knew he was loved and supported, he learned to comfort himself but not through crying alone in the dark.
Within 7 days we were all sleeping well, and a few months on this is still the case - and we are all happier and healthier.

it is short sighted not to consider the full experience of a persons life and make judgemental blanket statements about what is “cruel” and conversely what is “best” without this context.

OP, based in my experience there are methods that can offer better sleep to a family that do not involve acting in ways that make you feel uncomfortable as a parent. Don’t be afraid to explore these options and don’t be perturbed by the judgement of others who don’t know your life.

very best of luck to you

[LazJaz]

No I can’t will you exactly because it is proprietary information and you are asked to sign a contract to say you will not circulate the method without consent

i can summarise it though:
optimised sleeping conditions, ok to wake light, sound machine, red light to enhance melatonin production
combined with a ‘mantra’ that is used in varying ways through the programme
a proscribed method for withdrawing your child’s unsustainable sleep associations gradually night by night over 7 nights until you are outside your child’s door when they fall asleep
a proscribed method for interacting with the child if they wake up, including use of the baby monitor and specific patterns of interaction - they provide recommended scripts for common scenarios even
live coaching
games to play with your child during the day that reinforce sleep concepts
tailored support for issues at night at during the day while you are learning the skills of sleep over a 14 day period
lots of coaching about having empathy with your child’s experience when learning the skills of sleep and the importance of holding boundaries in a specific predictable manner.

I hope that is helpful!
I have to say it is not what I expected before we started.
we had tried many other methods and nothing else worked for our very sensitive little guy - this did.

[Lcb123]

I’d wait until you’ve moved-maybe you can make a big thing of decorating/unpacking his new room and making his bed,
so he’s really excited to sleep there? Maybe get him to chose new bedding and PJs? Can you try an audio book so he has something to focus on. And talk to him about his bedtime routine, and he will be in his nice new bedroom

[dottiedodah]

You have a lot going on for sure. Maybe see if you can settle him gently as you say. Children thrive on routine, and he is going to be unsettled for a while.maybe see if he will settle say 10 15 mins later on ,so he's quite tired.i must admit we couldn't get on with sleep training at all. I think supernanny is a bit outdated now. Some cuddles and hugs an gently moving out of his room. Bit by bit is kinder and less stressful for him. Maybe do some jobs while he watches cbbc before bed or Early morning

[KitKatKit]

You don't need the Super Nanny method, or indeed any other method.
Do your dinner dishes straight after dinner whilst he's still awake and go to bed with him (in your bed). You'll get plenty of "you" time when he no longer needs you, but right now, he does.

[Floomobal]

I think sleep training is equally cruel whether it’s a baby or a toddler.

You say “pitchforks down” but it’s not reasonable behaviour to have made your toddle shake and vomit from the stress of sleep training.

Could he have a little bed in your room? So that he’s sleeping independently but not completely on his own? He needs reassurance and comfort with so much going on in his life.

Also, bed time aside, he needs to be able to feel in control of some aspects of his life if everything is so up in the air. Routines that can stay the same etc regardless of where he is?

[pumpkinfan]

Don't sleep train him. Can't he just sleep in with you? If he's shaking and vomiting, it isn't right to force this on him. I understand it might be overwhelming but I'm sure it will be less so if you just embrace it. You've got years to get him settled in his own bed, it'll be far easier then if you give him what he needs now.

[FuschiaEmerald]

Thank you all for your comments. I can assure you I will not leave him to cry, and I am providing lots of love and support to him as I know this is a hard time for him. Pitchforks down please. I will keep comforting him for as long as he needs.

[goody2shooz]

@FuschiaEmerald rather than paying for a sleep consultant, can you afford a cleaner a few times a week, even just for a couple of months, just to allow you to help him settle after all these huge upheavals and changes? As most here would agree, it’s unfair to throw ‘sleep training’ in to this mix. I know how exhausting lack of sleep can be, but your lo is telling you as best he can just how upset he is. Please listen.

[TinySaltLick]

Sleep training is basically teaching a tiny child that their only reliable guiding light in the whole world isn't going to comfort them at their time of greatest need

It isn't helping them learn how to sleep, it is just forced trauma until they brain rewires to protect itself via blocking out feelings

A strong, confident boy doesn't come from being ignored when crying as a tiny toddler, it is the unwavering reassurance only a parent can provide

[Putonyourshoes]

It is very important to me that eventually DS is able to fall asleep independently without me needing to be present

You say “eventually” here, but previously were talking in timeframes of weeks. He will be able to fall asleep independently eventually, every child does. How many teenagers do you know who still fall asleep holding onto their parents?
What you’re actually saying is that you want him to be able to fall asleep independently now. And from what you’ve said previously it seems that you’re willing to leave him alone in a room crying to achieve that :(
There are ways you can encourage independent sleeping without using such harsh methods but they do take time. I recommend looking up Lindsay Hookway on social media. She promotes the use of “habit stacking”, you introduce habits to replace old ones (e.g introducing a comforter to have instead of physical contact). But this takes time where you’re still keeping the old habit (your presence) until the new habit becomes more established.

[AloysiusBear]

Any reason you can't just co-sleep?

Lots of people struggle with co-sleeping, if you have a wriggly child its terrible quality sleep. I tried co-sleeping with both of mine and was permanently exhausted, they both fidgeted constantly and woke me up at 5.30. Both got far more sleep by age 2 in their own beds.

Not to mention if your child gets used to being there the whole time, they often won't sleep at all without you literally there in bed with them. Most working adults are too busy to go to bed at 7.30pm - those 2 or 3 hours may be the only time they have to cook, exercise, have a coffee with a friend.

[AloysiusBear]

Ending up with a child in such distress vomiting probably means you are going from staying with him the whole time, to expecting to put him down and go, too fast with zero adjustment time.

Have you tried gradually reducing sleep props over two or three months?

[Hugasauras]

@RIPQueen

Ah mine always go through this phase around 2-2.5. Easiest thing is just to
let them
be in your bed. The more sure they are that you are there, the happier they will
Become and in a few months they wiLl go
happily in to their own bed.

Yep DD1 did this exact same thing at this age. I work evenings so couldn't easily settle her or get into bed with her so in the end I made her a small floor bed in my office and she just appeared and got into it and went back to sleep, then my husband carried her into our bed later on and we closlept rest of night, It only lasted for a couple of months max and now she sleeps in her own bed (but does appear at some point in night and get in with us, which is fine).

[bumbledeedum]

Any reason you can't just co-sleep? Can't believe how many people on her are advocating leaving a little one in distress. Echo PP, he's not a dog to train.

[EthicalNonMahogany]

Can you tell us exactly what the battelle method is?

[GloriousGlory]

@FuschiaEmerald

We move next week. He will be changing nurseries again. This will be the last move for us though, forever I hope. How long do I wait after we move? The clinginess/floor sleeping routine has been going on for 4 weeks now. Do you think carry on for 4 weeks the other side of the move while he gets settled in new home and nursery then start with the sleep training?

Four weeks after a major move and you seem at your wits end?

No you shouldn't be suppernanny sleep training, poor little mite.

Have some empathy?

[LazJaz]

This is truly so difficult for all of you and the sleep deprivation in all sides may be making all situations worse.
sleep training isn’t one thing - I don’t think cry it out sounds suitable for your toddler given the anxiety he may have built up around being left alone given all the massive changes. It may make things worse - as your experience with super nanny has shown.
We had a poor sleeper - very anxious child, who hated to be left. In desperation we tried the Batelle method. Honestly life changing. I found it respectful of the child and the adult who learn the new skill together. There is no crying out but instead very consistent reassurance in a proscribed method that lets the child know that he is not alone and that you will attend to his needs, even while you dont deliver on his wants.
I can’t recommend it enough.
first couple of days are challenging but you can see progress very quickly - our child started falling asleep without protest and sleeping through the night (12 hours) on day 7.
It is expensive as you are delivered specific equipment and are coached lived while you learn the process - the advice is very individualised within the proscribed method. but you can pay the fees in instalment over 12 months which makes it more manageable. the fee includes support until the child’s 6th birthday.

the very best of luck to you and your little one

[RIPQueen]

@Lucyshavingaparty

Put bars up on the door of his room so he can't get out. They get used to it after about two nights and just go to sleep.

I’m assuming this is a joke

[RIPQueen]

Ah mine always go through this phase around 2-2.5. Easiest thing is just to
let them
be in your bed. The more sure they are that you are there, the happier they will
Become and in a few months they wiLl go
happily in to their own bed.

[Lucyshavingaparty]

Put bars up on the door of his room so he can't get out. They get used to it after about two nights and just go to sleep.

[Lakalla]

Oh don’t let him cry 😢 are you sure his back molars aren’t coming through or has he got them? I know you said he still wakes crying but I’d still put him in your bed and co sleep untill he settles down again , it will only be a phase and he needs you. Fears set in at this age too. Mine was the perfect sleeper from age 1 and I’d just put him down and he get himself to sleep , but then age 2 1/2 he got terrified of the dark would be so hard to get him to sleep. It was just a phase though but now age 3 most nights we cuddle to sleep in my bed and I move him back into his room and he sleeps fine, sometimes though he’ll sneak through in the night for a cuddle. Don’t sleep train with all that he’s got going in and don’t listen to super nanny she’s a twat. I bet he will just stop waking himself soon once he feels more secure. I know it’s hard x