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AIBU?

... to be appalled by this point in today's 'mini budget'

107 replies

SafferUpNorth · 23/09/2022 12:14

Abolishing the upper income tax bracket of 45% which applies to incomes of £150,000+...

I mean WTF? WHY? Do these people need help? Why blow a hole in the country's tax revenue to help high earners??? I know the answer, of course... because it's the Tories. But goddammit, this is so blatantly favouring the wealthy at a time of crisis, it's absurd.

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

492 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
16%
You are NOT being unreasonable
84%
PestorPeston · 23/09/2022 20:36

Always4Brenner · 23/09/2022 20:19

Yes and labour camps they bloody would if they could get away with it.

You really need to read Britannia Unchained it is the manifesto of the current crew.

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pointythings · 23/09/2022 20:37

Leilu · 23/09/2022 20:11

Higher earners will be paying more than 45% of their whole income in tax and NI.

I've just put it into the calculator on MoneySavingExpert - for someone earning £150k, they pay a total of roughly 40% including NI (but excluding pension contributions). Pension contributions should not count because you aren't actually losing that money, just putting it away.

On £150k, your take home exclusing pension would be £90k, or about £7k a month.

If you're moaning about that, you need to give your head a wobble.

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Florenz · 23/09/2022 20:43

How much money did the additional 5% tax on earnings over £150,000 actually bring in? It really doesn't affect that many people, and of those it does affect, many earn only just over the threshold, so they'd only be paying the extra 5% on a few thousand pounds. Those that earn a lot over £150,000 will be finding ways to avoid it.

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Leilu · 23/09/2022 21:02

pointythings · 23/09/2022 20:37

I've just put it into the calculator on MoneySavingExpert - for someone earning £150k, they pay a total of roughly 40% including NI (but excluding pension contributions). Pension contributions should not count because you aren't actually losing that money, just putting it away.

On £150k, your take home exclusing pension would be £90k, or about £7k a month.

If you're moaning about that, you need to give your head a wobble.

Moaning? I’m politely pointing out people’s lies or mistakes. If you earn over about £400,000 then you pay over 45% of your entire wage in tax and NI.

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Yucca78 · 23/09/2022 21:12

So spend the extra on local businesses.....

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YeOldeTrout · 23/09/2022 22:25

Don't people on £100k or £200k (not me) find ways to be very tax efficient, they set up pay arrangements that help to minimise their tax, trusts, making themselves into a partnership or limited company, things like that? And then claim lots of tax-reduction expenses. I'm sure there are tax-clever options that become available to someone on these high salaries.

I'd like to know among the MNers on £100k/annum if they are paying 43%+ of their total income in tax+NI. Instead, how many are actually piling ££££ into their pension, sharing their income within a partnership, or finding other tax breaks?

For those of you on £100k plus, how are you going to spend your tax breaks in 2022+ ?

Percentiles, I think £100k is top 2.2%, £150k is top 1.2% of personal incomes?

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Leilu · 23/09/2022 22:38

YeOldeTrout · 23/09/2022 22:25

Don't people on £100k or £200k (not me) find ways to be very tax efficient, they set up pay arrangements that help to minimise their tax, trusts, making themselves into a partnership or limited company, things like that? And then claim lots of tax-reduction expenses. I'm sure there are tax-clever options that become available to someone on these high salaries.

I'd like to know among the MNers on £100k/annum if they are paying 43%+ of their total income in tax+NI. Instead, how many are actually piling ££££ into their pension, sharing their income within a partnership, or finding other tax breaks?

For those of you on £100k plus, how are you going to spend your tax breaks in 2022+ ?

Percentiles, I think £100k is top 2.2%, £150k is top 1.2% of personal incomes?

No, they don’t, which is why the top 1%, despite earning only 14% of all wages pay 30% of all income tax.

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1dontunderstand · 23/09/2022 22:51

@properdoughnut the point is that it is less taxes(income) into the communal coffers, therefore reducing the communal income. While Liz Truss is borrowing money which we will have to repay

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YeOldeTrout · 23/09/2022 22:53

Wages are not the only form of income... high incomes often come from many sources: rental, dividends, capital gains, interest (in ordinary times)... Each of these can be sheltered from tax in creative ways.

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YeOldeTrout · 23/09/2022 22:57

Tax Payers Alliance.
In 2016-17, the bottom 10 per cent of households paid an average of 49.5 percent of their gross income in taxes.
vs.
The top 10 per cent of households paid an average of 33.8 per cent of their gross income in taxes.

Those calculations exclude benefits in kind, such as travel subsidies, education and the NHS. Which one imagines benefit the top 10% more than the bottom 10%.

But yeah, sure, make out the top 1% pay more than their fair share. Poor wee things.

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whereamu · 23/09/2022 22:59

I don't understand why people are saying the personal allowance should be increased and no one is talking about the reduced income tax from 20% to 19% ?
Would that not have a similar effect and the reduction will help everyone? I understand maybe not a lot.

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Florenz · 23/09/2022 23:19

I think there should be a 10% rate that starts at 0, and then raise the 20% rate to 40 hours x NMW x 52.

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SuperCamp · 23/09/2022 23:19

Meanwhile, my pension pot is plummeting. I need to start drawing it next year, so the losses will be crystallised. That’s it. My standard of living between now and death is poleaxed. (It wasn’t a big pot anyway).

They knew the pound would fall. They knew this would happen.

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JobSeekingMissile · 23/09/2022 23:41

It's ridiculous. I work 2 jobs to try to make ends meet. I lose 25% of one wage in tax and NI contributions because my allowance is mostly used up on the other one, but hey it's not like they could help out us normal folk 😡

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Dailywalk · 24/09/2022 06:33

Surely an increase in UC would make sense too? They are the people who need help and any increase would be spent and recirculated rather than squirrelled away.
At what point will someone in the Conservative party actually have a conscience and say this is wrong?

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Bunnycat101 · 24/09/2022 06:46

The thing I don’t understand (as a pp mentioned) is what is the point if the pound falls? The high earners may well lose more in investments than they gain by the tax changes so it feels a bit pointless. We are a household that benefits (although mainly from NI rather then the 45%) but are feeling uneasy about it, worried about the markets and what services might have to be cut. Surely if families like us aren’t convinced, I’m not really sure why they’ve done it. Normally people feel happy after a give away budget- the fact that many of the beneficiaries of this one don’t us quite telling.

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TokyoSushi · 24/09/2022 07:04

Still cross about this today. There was not one thing in that budget for 'normal people.' It was interesting watching the Sky News coverage, they didn't really know what to say.

I think this was the 'ah, fuck it' moment. They're like drunks in a casino at 3am, they know time is almost up. Go big or go home lads hey?

Bloody ridiculous. I cannot wait for an election.

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Rinatinabina · 24/09/2022 07:05

I don’t think the kind of people this affects necessarily plan to leave a country just because of taxation but say someone headhunts you and offers you a job in a different country where you will be net net better off, theres a good chance you will take it.

Many high earners do actually pay tax through PAYE, I have a sibling who is a tax accountant working for businesses and the sums people pay in tax are eye watering. Investment bankers (who are employed) will be paying PAYE and taxes on bonuses. They may get other bens and payment in kind etc. but the bulk of income is taxed. They obviously still have a shit ton of money but it’s not correct to say all these people are avoiding tax. Business owners on the other hand, bit easier for them to reduce their tax bills.

I imagine the government is signalling to wealth creators that the Uk is a good place to be. It’s about 2 billion that will be lost in tax take so lets see if they can generate that back.

TBH I’m not sure how I feel about it. I wouldn’t benefit from this change but I can see why people who would be better off may feel it’s fair. PP point about 40 being the top rate under Labour is right.

Also it’s true that you don’t have to keep the extra money of you do benefit, you can give it back to the government if you want to to. I would suggest sticking it back in the local economy but you are under no obligation to keep it. Reminds me of a poster who was bemoaning their inheritance would make them extremely rich and that IHT was too low. The answer to that was quite simple. Don’t keep it.

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Rinatinabina · 24/09/2022 07:07

TokyoSushi · 24/09/2022 07:04

Still cross about this today. There was not one thing in that budget for 'normal people.' It was interesting watching the Sky News coverage, they didn't really know what to say.

I think this was the 'ah, fuck it' moment. They're like drunks in a casino at 3am, they know time is almost up. Go big or go home lads hey?

Bloody ridiculous. I cannot wait for an election.

I think the 1% cut and reversal of NI uplift will benefit ordinary people. And the energy “cap” (I loathe that word, worst bit of marketing language ever).

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MarshaBradyo · 24/09/2022 07:25

Rinatinabina · 24/09/2022 07:05

I don’t think the kind of people this affects necessarily plan to leave a country just because of taxation but say someone headhunts you and offers you a job in a different country where you will be net net better off, theres a good chance you will take it.

Many high earners do actually pay tax through PAYE, I have a sibling who is a tax accountant working for businesses and the sums people pay in tax are eye watering. Investment bankers (who are employed) will be paying PAYE and taxes on bonuses. They may get other bens and payment in kind etc. but the bulk of income is taxed. They obviously still have a shit ton of money but it’s not correct to say all these people are avoiding tax. Business owners on the other hand, bit easier for them to reduce their tax bills.

I imagine the government is signalling to wealth creators that the Uk is a good place to be. It’s about 2 billion that will be lost in tax take so lets see if they can generate that back.

TBH I’m not sure how I feel about it. I wouldn’t benefit from this change but I can see why people who would be better off may feel it’s fair. PP point about 40 being the top rate under Labour is right.

Also it’s true that you don’t have to keep the extra money of you do benefit, you can give it back to the government if you want to to. I would suggest sticking it back in the local economy but you are under no obligation to keep it. Reminds me of a poster who was bemoaning their inheritance would make them extremely rich and that IHT was too low. The answer to that was quite simple. Don’t keep it.

I remember that thread. I think the same when posters go on about inequality but use private schools. Nothing against private, we use both, but I do think get some consistency. And yes redistribution is always an option.

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TooMuchToDoTooLittleInclination · 24/09/2022 07:32

Charl1991 · 23/09/2022 13:14

YANBU.

I am also appalled as we completed on a house 2 days ago and paid 3k more in Stamp duty than I would have today.

It's only £2500, when talking house prices, that's nothing. I can't see it pushing up house prices.

(£125000 x 2%)

saving up to £8500 for FTB



Shows the reasoning.

I had been getting excited about the changes to SD, but for the average person & house they're barely worth mentioning and of course, those in the north benefit the most as you can buy a lot more house before the SD kicks in.

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Penguinsaregreat · 24/09/2022 07:34

The poster who said people don’t leave a country because they pay a bit more tax is 100% correct.
I have friends who have emigrated. They pay far more tax in the countries they now live in.
They moved for a better life. Yet still they pay more tax. The better life includes cleaner areas, less boarded up shops. Better weather! Better services (paid for by taxes) better law and order (paid for by taxes), better health care (which they pay heavily for), better roads.

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TooMuchToDoTooLittleInclination · 24/09/2022 07:39

TooMuchToDoTooLittleInclination · 24/09/2022 07:32

It's only £2500, when talking house prices, that's nothing. I can't see it pushing up house prices.

(£125000 x 2%)

saving up to £8500 for FTB



Shows the reasoning.

I had been getting excited about the changes to SD, but for the average person & house they're barely worth mentioning and of course, those in the north benefit the most as you can buy a lot more house before the SD kicks in.

@obsessedwithsleep

I meant to tag you in my previous post

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TooMuchToDoTooLittleInclination · 24/09/2022 07:40

Penguinsaregreat · 24/09/2022 07:34

The poster who said people don’t leave a country because they pay a bit more tax is 100% correct.
I have friends who have emigrated. They pay far more tax in the countries they now live in.
They moved for a better life. Yet still they pay more tax. The better life includes cleaner areas, less boarded up shops. Better weather! Better services (paid for by taxes) better law and order (paid for by taxes), better health care (which they pay heavily for), better roads.

Yeah my friends have done the same, with the same reasoning.

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Roselilly36 · 24/09/2022 07:42

Sure fits in with the Tory ethos, making the rich richer, don’t give a damn about the poor or disabled IMHO.

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