My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

AIBU?

... to be appalled by this point in today's 'mini budget'

107 replies

SafferUpNorth · 23/09/2022 12:14

Abolishing the upper income tax bracket of 45% which applies to incomes of £150,000+...

I mean WTF? WHY? Do these people need help? Why blow a hole in the country's tax revenue to help high earners??? I know the answer, of course... because it's the Tories. But goddammit, this is so blatantly favouring the wealthy at a time of crisis, it's absurd.

OP posts:
Report

Am I being unreasonable?

492 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
16%
You are NOT being unreasonable
84%
lannistunut · 23/09/2022 16:01

Icanstillrecallourlastsummer · 23/09/2022 12:24

Entirely pointless. If they wanted to benefit that bracket they could have rased the limits instead and benefitted everyone.

Quite! This budget has deliberately been targeted so it only benefits the top 5%.

Report
MushMonster · 23/09/2022 16:12

I agree, whole heartily.
But at least you are thinking of the rest of us! I would say, if you can, spend the money on local shops, go for an extra coffee, gift shop and so on.
So it does actually trickle down to us.
But.... many people who earns high figures do not even "live" in UK, so they may be just moving to savings or investments abroad and how is that going to work for us? I cannot understand it really.
If they were going to up benefits, but they actually cut them!
As you say, the NHS is lacking.
Education is not coming out well either, not so long ago newspapers were stating that the quality of education may come down as to pay for teacher's payrise as there is no further funding to pay for it.
Regarding energy, things are grim, we are extremely dependant on other countries.
The prices keep going up, with huge inflaction, which if they do not tackle pronto, will bring the economy to a real shrink! People cannot expend any extra money that they do not have, so busineses will suffer, in a domino effect.
The only way I do see forward is to find innovative products, on the scale of amazon, facebook, super powerful batteries, 100% green energy, super medical advances... new things that make UK top on the investment league, patents, new companies...
But it does not look like we are going crazy in R&D either.
I am not understanding the path these guys are following at all.

Report
Skolo · 23/09/2022 16:19

All these outraged, non-Tory voting, high earners can overpay their tax by 5% or as much as they like., I’m slightly surprised that they don’t know about this already!

Report
banhmi · 23/09/2022 16:27

The Tories can get away with this sort of shit because most people (including some on this thread) don't understand how marginal tax rates work.

As a PP has said, 45% was only ever levied on earnings above £150k. Everything earned under that was taxed in the same way, so 20% basic rate then 40% higher rate over approx £50k etc.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18171975/tax-bracket-marginal-cartoon-ocasio-cortez-70-percent

Report
DownToTheSeaAgain · 23/09/2022 16:27

So the basic philosophy is that the rich are taxed more because they have more. This is then redistributed in the form of the welfare state.

The problem comes when the rich, particularly the revenue generators that run businesses and invest in them, leave the country and take their money elsewhere to protect themselves from high taxes.

I get that. What I don't get is how we are able to print or borrow billions to subsidise our tax revenues and pay for stuff and this not have a far more negative impact on the economy and the country in the long term. That's far more worrying to me.

Report
MarshaBradyo · 23/09/2022 16:37

Skolo · 23/09/2022 16:19

All these outraged, non-Tory voting, high earners can overpay their tax by 5% or as much as they like., I’m slightly surprised that they don’t know about this already!

True

Report
PestorPeston · 23/09/2022 16:45

Pound at $1.09 and falling. Do you think they are aiming for parity?

Report
ClocksGoingBackwards · 23/09/2022 16:57

pointythings · 23/09/2022 15:59

@ClocksGoingBackwards it isn't 45% taken off all earnings. It's 45% on everything over £150k, which is a pretty massive wage. So pardon me if my violin is a bit too small for you.

I am aware of how it works, thank you. No violins needed for me, I’m on a low income, I’m just not jealous of those who aren’t.

Report
rwalker · 23/09/2022 17:17

It will never affect me on my wage but I think 45% tax is obscene
To take just short of 1/2 what u earn I’d do everything I could to avoid it

Report
pointythings · 23/09/2022 17:39

@rwalker why does it bother you to give up 45% of anything you earn over the really large sum of £150k? That smacks of greed to me.

Report
properdoughnut · 23/09/2022 17:48

cigiwi · 23/09/2022 12:44

... And you have never considered the possibility that rich people being given more cash might affect your ability to sort out your own bills? No connection?

I know some of you Tories were at the back of the queue when thinking caps were being issued. But still, it's interesting to see this in practice. For those who wonder how they get away with it: this is how.

They aren't given more. They are having less taken away.

Report
SunnySomer · 23/09/2022 17:57

Elvira2000 · 23/09/2022 15:23

It is mostly a fallacy that high earners move because of "high" tax (try denmark - where 50% is the lowest!). In fact i remember paying about 45% in Germany when earning around 30k a year.

It takes years to get to that sort of money and during that time people put down roots and develop relationships. That rate of tax is just part and parcel of living.

I reckon if high-earners are going to move from the uk, it will be more from the decline in infrastructure and the general environment. I have lived in two different countries since the tories got in. Every trip back compares so badly with these other places. I remember one trip in particular to my old uni town. The ground was matted with rubbish to the extent that I thought there was a bin strike, but no. It was normal. The air of general decay was horrible and really saddening.

This is the sort of thing that causes high earners to move, if they do. They may live in lovely enclaves, but they do need to venture out and go through the shitty bits and see the poorer citizens occasionally. And high earners are usually intelligent enough to link tax to quality of living conditions.

100% agree with this and was about to write an almost identical post. We talked v seriously this summer about relocating to a high tax country with top quality infrastructure (public transport, state education, affordable universities, excellent and affordable health system, very high environmental standards). Because everything here is falling to pieces. What is the benefit of holding onto your cash if everything around you is rubbish?

Report
Quveas · 23/09/2022 18:11

ChilliBandit · 23/09/2022 12:47

This is bull. Wealthy people are not leaving the UK because of the 45% tax rate on their income over £150,000. It’s pocket change at that level.

And they don't leave anyway. They avoid paying tax. Did people think Rishi's wife is the only multimillionaire in the UK paying next to nothing?

Report
lannistunut · 23/09/2022 19:48

Quveas · 23/09/2022 18:11

And they don't leave anyway. They avoid paying tax. Did people think Rishi's wife is the only multimillionaire in the UK paying next to nothing?

There is a certain group of people who won't pay whatever the top rate is, the 40% or 45% thing is not going to make any difference to that.

Report
MarshaBradyo · 23/09/2022 19:51

Quveas · 23/09/2022 18:11

And they don't leave anyway. They avoid paying tax. Did people think Rishi's wife is the only multimillionaire in the UK paying next to nothing?

You need to consider people on PAYE though who do pay the tax - that is who this is affecting not Rishi’s wife and similar

Report
iklboo · 23/09/2022 19:54

It will never affect me on my wage but I think 45% tax is obscene
To take just short of 1/2 what u earn I’d do everything I could to avoid it

As PP have said, it doesn't work like that. They only pay the 45% on the part of their earnings that is OVER £150,000. So taxed on the same scale as everyone else up to the £150k. If they earn £175,000 they pay 45% of the £25k.

Report
Leilu · 23/09/2022 20:09

WatchoRulo · 23/09/2022 15:53

Good riddance to cunts who don't want to pay their share. Fuck to them.

They don’t mind paying their fair share, but people like you seem to want them to pay far more than their fair share.

Report
Leilu · 23/09/2022 20:11

pointythings · 23/09/2022 15:59

@ClocksGoingBackwards it isn't 45% taken off all earnings. It's 45% on everything over £150k, which is a pretty massive wage. So pardon me if my violin is a bit too small for you.

Higher earners will be paying more than 45% of their whole income in tax and NI.

Report
colouringindoors · 23/09/2022 20:13

It's utterly obscene.

But currently 18% of voters on this thread also want to make the rich richer and the poor suffer.

Report
Always4Brenner · 23/09/2022 20:19

iklboo · 23/09/2022 13:04

What's the next step: bring back workhouses?

Yes and labour camps they bloody would if they could get away with it.

Report
Dailywalk · 23/09/2022 20:29

So I gave this some thought today…If they’d raise the personal allowance to say £15k that would benefit far more people. That extra £2.5k for taxpayers would at least help to pay for the increased utility bills. I’d also raise child benefit. If each child got an extra £50/m that money would quickly be spent and keep circulating benefitting more businesses and families.

We also really need to be offering grants to people to make home improvements such as solar panels and insulation or improvements to boilers etc. Todays budget did none of these things.

Report
FlowerArranger · 23/09/2022 20:33

Suedomin · 23/09/2022 12:38

give your 5% to charity then if you feel that strongly about it.
The PP is missing the point. Giving money to charity isn't going to solve anything. And it's not jealously as I heard a Tory MP say!
The point is if public services are crying out for more funding, children are not getting the support they need. But instead of providing more support to those who need it. This Government decided to increase national debt to make rich people richer and with their new rules on UC poor people poorer. It's immoral.

Totally agree

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

FlowerArranger · 23/09/2022 20:33

Dailywalk · 23/09/2022 20:29

So I gave this some thought today…If they’d raise the personal allowance to say £15k that would benefit far more people. That extra £2.5k for taxpayers would at least help to pay for the increased utility bills. I’d also raise child benefit. If each child got an extra £50/m that money would quickly be spent and keep circulating benefitting more businesses and families.

We also really need to be offering grants to people to make home improvements such as solar panels and insulation or improvements to boilers etc. Todays budget did none of these things.

This too!!

Report
Florenz · 23/09/2022 20:36

The best tax rates are the ones that bring in the most tax. Set them too high and more people find ways to avoid them. There's absolutely no difference between a 0% tax rate and a 100% tax rate.

Report
FlowerArranger · 23/09/2022 20:36

iklboo · 23/09/2022 19:54

It will never affect me on my wage but I think 45% tax is obscene
To take just short of 1/2 what u earn I’d do everything I could to avoid it

As PP have said, it doesn't work like that. They only pay the 45% on the part of their earnings that is OVER £150,000. So taxed on the same scale as everyone else up to the £150k. If they earn £175,000 they pay 45% of the £25k.

So many don't understand how the tax system works, unfortunately

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.