To feel WFH has had its day a bit?

[Seaswimminginwinter]

Bosses think workers do less from home - bbc article

My job doesn’t lend itself to WFH but I have noticed on nearly every thread on here about WFH, people insist that they are more productive. However, I have to admit that this doesn’t match with my experiences. But I am one person so maybe I’ve been unlucky, except this article is quite interesting about perceptions.

I also think it changes homes and areas. My own DH is WFH today and it is my day off, meaning I will spend it feeling as f I am I the way in my own home. Homes aren’t meant to be offices.

I get there are advantages but overall I don’t think it works well at all.

I had a job where we had a telephone helpline and I was the helpline, there was nobody else. If I worked from home, I let the office know when I was going out for lunch etc so they could field my calls, but I carried my phone around with me when I was at home. I did have to take calls when in the shower or on the loo a couple of times!

The cowardly OP has fucked off, but it looks like the sentiment on here is fairly unanimous.

We need to mentor younger colleagues not leave them isolated working from their bedrooms

This was the case during the first lockdown. It is not the case now. If you don't want to work from home, or don't have the space, you can either go into the office or use a co-working hub.

Remote working does not mean sitting in a tiny bedroom somewhere.

Yes, but those young people aren't getting any mentoring if all the experienced staff are happy in their snug little world at home, having previously benefited from others helping them in the workplace.

There's not much to gain from going into work if no one else is.

In your workplace maybe
if I want to go into our satellite office I can. But it’s random people from non phone based jobs and no one related to my role. No one there to help me

@SleeplessInEngland because the mumsnet demographic tends to suit WFH, older, established, with kids.

My son who is 24 had a terrible first year of WFH. In a shared house surrounded in his room by up to 20 laptops at a time.

He has changed jobs since for a hybrid role- part client site, 1 day at company office, 1 day at home and now has a flat with just 2 of them

WFH def not right for many people, really depends on role, personality, and whether you need much support

Indeed I can see your point, however, some people do like to socialize with their families/other friends and the colleagues they get along with and with whom they share similar life values.

I'm not sure you do get my point. Restricting your social interaction to only people you get along with and share similar life values is definitely great for ones immediate personal comfort but, I think, not good for wider social cohesion if it becomes the new normal. And long term, a more divided angry society is going to be bad for everyone.

I'm not saying you must only socially interact with colleagues. That would be weird. I'm saying never socialising (in the widest sense) with people you have not personally selected is also not a great choice, both for individuals and for society.

We don't build tolerance and resilience by avoiding things but by facing them.

Why cowardly? What could I add, do you think?

Its not quite unanimous at the vote, although it’s definitely leaning to me being UR which is fair enough!

But TBF a lot of these ‘I’m MUCH more productive!’ posts aren’t shared by employers, and people insisting it’s brilliant because they can do their washing and pick the kids up - that’s kind of the point!

But TBF a lot of these ‘I’m MUCH more productive!’ posts aren’t shared by employers, and people insisting it’s brilliant because they can do their washing and pick the kids up - that’s kind of the point!

How do you define 'employer'? And of course you only hear from those who hate it and make a big song and dance in the media...

I've had two large teams that have had measurable productivity improvements and where the organisations improved turnover with increased (and in one case full) WFH. In my current team, we've established with data that hybrid (with 1-2 days in the office a week, but managing those days well as core days, and not a random free for all) is optimal for our productivity.

My first question of any employer making those claims would be to ask what their productivity rates were before and after homeworking? A good number won't be able to answer because they don't actually mesure productivity properly. It's all about the feels.

Half the issues with home working productivity seem to be issues with management capability. Any manager or management system that can't deal with people doing fuck all because they don't have someone breathing down their neck is a failed system.

I do think full WFH is probably suboptimal overall, allowing for variations in what different jobs need, but then I think full on-site working is equally suboptimal. Managed hybrid feels like the future standard for office work, with variations for roles that can only be done in person and those that are best done fully remotely (and remember there have been lots of fully remote jobs for years...)

Have you ever seen a survey done of employers? On WFH? I haven’t. I have only see the squealing platformed by certain newspapers who want people to work in offices. It’s a new kind of culture war.

It is indeed, which doesn't actually help anyone.

That article has no data to back up the drop in productivity.

Its a survey based on peoples feelings with no data to back it up. And it’s not surprising. I have been in many jobs where wfh was possible and company heads wouldn’t allow it for a whole host of spurious reasons, which essentially came down to ‘I don’t trust my staff to work if I can’t see them’. That has always been a bad business decision. From employee well being to missing out on good employees because their disability requires wfh, it’s not good.

Bums on seats does not ensure productivity. At work most people chat and get distracted. Make a brew for everyone, stop by a few desks on the way, have a chat in the kitchen and come back 20-30 mins later. And these are not ‘learning moments’ or work chats. The ones who find anything to do but their work. The ones who disappear every morning for half an hour to go the toilet. Assuming you see someone at their desk, at various points of the day and assuming they are productive has always been poor management. It’s like bosses who assume those still at their desks after 5pm, are more dedicated than those that leave, are also usually wrong.

Truth is those that do very little while wfh, would have done very little when in the office.

So while people insist that employees who say they are more productive at home must wrong because bosses say different, you can’t say which is correct. the vast majority of the time, both are based on feelings. I would suggest and employee who is wfh or hybrid and wants to remain so, finds a way to back track productivity.

The only way you would know is if you tracked productivity and had actual measurables before and after. We did. 2 teams In head office saw a drop on productivity. One immediately and they came back into the office in weeks and productivity went back up. Another teams productivity didn’t drop until mid 2021, at which point it was managed to try and see an improvement. That didn’t happen so they came back in around October 2021. The rest of head office has remained hybrid.

My boss wasn’t overly keen on wfh before the pandemic. But he realises one thing. That forcing people back full time will lead to good staff going to competitor who is offering hybrid. He accepts the data and while he probably would prefer to see more people in more often, he gets the work place has changed.

All these bosses that ‘feel’ their staff are less productive but still doing wfh or hybrid recognise the same. While people often say ‘it ultimately up to the employer’ and ‘bosses say productivity has dropped so it must have’ these people don’t realise if both goose things were true, people would be back in the office.

WFH has been a miracle for me and my family. It means I get more sleep, we can have a dog now, I'm on top of my housework and thanks to not having to spend 2 hours a day on a bus, I spend a lot more time with my DC and am home for bath and bed time. It's changed my life. I hybrid work so I still go to the office 2 days a week but 2 instead of 5 has made the world of difference.

I've been remote working for years, long pre-pandemic. I've always found it better, and my business has largely seen the benefit of it - but there's certainly some people it doesn't work as well for.

If you're reasonably diligent and trustworthy enough to get stuff done, you'll do it wherever you are. Some people have really thrived - those (like myself) who need absolute silence to work effectively, our more introverted staff members, people who do intensive work who don't need team input. Others find it okay and use it mostly for days when there's something bringing a parcel or whatever. Others have chosen to come back to the office full-time as they prefer the atmosphere.

So I think it depends on the type of person you are, the type of work you do, and what the office culture is. We have an outcome-based culture (so no clockwatching - I couldn't care less if someone works, from home or the office, for 6 hours rather than 8 in a day as long as the work is done), and a fair few people who work in relatively niche, single-person teams, so it works well for many of us. For businesses which require a lot of collaboration it might be harder, for people who need to get up and out of a morning or see others it might be harder, for companies which demand to-the-minute working it'll inevitably seem less successful/harder to track.

Truth is those that do very little while wfh, would have done very little when in the office.

Exactly.

Outstanding post @Hearthnhome

Actually had an in office day this week. Bloody loved it
interestingly we were told that we now have over 50% turnover in new starters within 3 months of going live (contact centre) as they can’t cope/learn/bear it

If it doesn't work for you, fine, but your statement is sweeping.

Since WFH, I'm have had two job promotions. I've gone from AO to HEO. I moved from my office to WFH for an office in my department, hundreds of miles away. I now work for a team spread across the UK.

My work productivity has exploded. When I worked in the office I hated the people, the atmosphere, and the job role. I now love my job role, but I would need to sit in the same office prior to Covid...with the people I hate, when I hybrid work. I barely get anything done in the office.

I work with vulnerable people who need me to be productive. People at risk of suicide.

You can't see what these people are or aren't doing. If these bosses think people are falling short...pretty sure a lot of people would have lost their jobs? Bosses have access to worker systems, stats, can see if they're still at their desk because Teams will either be green or yellow.

Speaking as a Social Scientist - I want evidence. Show me statistics. Alas, statistics is not a correlation for everyone else doing the same thing. You will have lazy people in an office, to.

I just think some people will believe any click bait trash the media posts. Drama brings numbers, dissent gives them a scoop to report them. I bet half these journalists are writing their articles from home.

What you know and what you're told are two different things.

Let's not be jealous that some of us work hard enough to be trusted to continue WFH.