Are GPs ever going to get better?

[KassandraOfSparta]

Just phoned my GP to try to get an appointment as I need to see/speak to a doctor. First appointment was a telephone consult in a fortnight.

My issue is indeed something which probably can be dealt with over the phone but if it hadn't been, wait for 2 weeks to speak to someone and then wait again to be seen in person? Is it any wonder people are going to A&E and queuing there instead?

(And before anyone pipes up, yes it is something which needs a GP. I sat through several repeats of the "if you have an issue with your eyes, see the optician. Pharmacists can help with minot ailments" message. Also to preempt the other common question, no online anything, just a webform to fill in for a repeat prescription).

Out of interest, how much is a private consulation with one of those online GP things and a private script? Starting to think things are not evern going to improve.

Not true. My work private health insurance insist on a GP referral for any private apts you want or need. Which given the state of our GP (just taken 6 weeks to get a non urgent apt) is a joke

Thats not how it works in Europe at all, which is a tax payer funded model, the insurance you talk about is a top up.

But whatever system you want, no new reorganisation conjures up additional hospitals, 100k extra AHP (inc 40000 nurses) staff, 10000 more dentists or 15000 more GP's, let alone the 300,000 adult social care workers we are short of.

We have consistently voted to make healthcare less available and affordable.

@JustFrustrated
Wow you really don't understand do u?
Your NHS GP has NO say in who you choose. Yes they can offer advice. But it's upto YOU to shop around and pick the provider you choose and are happy with their terms
So if you've picked someone who needs a referral letter that's on YOU and your poor choice.
NOT YOUR GP. FGS people wonder why we leave in droves when we are held responsible for all and sundrys rubbish.
My house is mouldy - call the GP
Hospitals are slow - call the GP
I can't control my child that I've never even tried to discipline - call the GP
Thanks for reminding me of why I'm leaving. Won't be wasting my energy looking back!

@LittleMy77
Your choosing that private service. Why not pick one that doesn't need a referral letter?
Whenever I've used private services before I make sure they don't require a referral. There are plenty out there

@LittleMy77
And technically NHS GP spots should not be used to request private letters as that's not what the NHS money is for. Really your surgery should be charging you for that appointment as well at the letter.

@JustFrustrated so you wouldn't wait a week for a painter and decorator, or a car service, or a furniture delivery?
Can you not grasp that you are one of thousands of patients, many of whom will have things they want, things that they asked for before you asked for your letter. What is it you don't understand? Or do you feel your letter should get done first because you're going private, and doing the NHS a favour? But what about the patient who was seen before you with a breast lump, or the patient who needs a medical report for their mortgage before their house sale falls through, or the HGV driver who needs confirmation of his diabetes control before he can continue working? Should they wait for you?

You don't need a referral letter to see a consultant privately if self funded but if healthcare insurance funded, a GP letter is always needed.

*appointments not spots

Because work pays for part of the monthly fee so it works out cheaper than anything else I can get - I’ve priced it up.

Why? If the referral is for a genuine reason they’d only be referred to the NHS otherwise. A GP told me he was happy to do a private referral letter and alleviate some strain on the NHS.

@LittleMy77 So then you are choosing a lesser service for the overall cost saving benefit. Therefore no reason to be frustrated at busy GPs for taking long to do non urgent letters. That's the cost of saving money

Your letter is in a queue to be typed. Do you think it should be prioritised over the NHS referrals that are in front of you in the queue?

Who would want to go into medicine? Answer? Lots of people. It’s heavily, heavily over subscribed. More so than any other course. Lots of people that would make great doctors don’t get a look in. It may seem draconian, but what’s the other option? People that we as a country have invested heavily in training swanning off overseas at the drop of a hat. I think those that have taken all of the training the UK has provided but are unprepared to give back to the country ought to return the funding they have benefitted from. It’s what many people have to do in other professional services roles. Mr & Mrs £120k can no doubt afford it.

I do understand the frustration but it just meant that they took up an appointment with someone who couldn't help them, uaing up a slot that would have otherwise gone to someone else wanting to be seen. That other person could need abx, might have been an appendicitis... It still took up a slot to understand and document their issue and the outcome was I old them what they already knew, they need to book an appointment with the gp.

And I know its a pain when they just release the slots in batches, or at 0800 only, but when it's opened up months in advance they just get booked up months in advance plus a decent chunk of those will forget the appointment because it was so far away.

@HotDogKetchup
That's the way the funding works
Many people don't understand how GPs are paid. They only get paid for treating certain things so alot of what they do (like your appt) is unpaid extra work that they do out of goodwill
And the argument of "I'm saving the NHS money" isn't valid as it's not the GPs money you are saving. The GPs take a financial hit to provide services they could really charge for and still they get slated.

And technically my income tax should be paying for some sort of health service so I don’t have to wait 2+ years for a ‘non urgent’ appointment (altho being on my foot it was not an option)

I understand where you’re coming from but I pay tax, I, fortunate that me and my work pay for private healthcare and the associated excesses with that per year.

the fact the system is broken is not my fault; I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want some sort of healthcare

@LittleMy77
Neither is it the fault of the GP and yet people expect them to provide more and more for less and less. That's my point.

@Boredatworkalways
Fair point
And on that same vein the UK should pay back the training of all the overseas healthcare professionals who work in it. How many doctors and nurses are from India / Africa / Eastern Europe?
How much do you think we owe THEIR government to recompense them for the training being utilised in the UK "at the drop of a hat"?

@LittleMy77 no one is denying that the system is broken by why is that the fault of the GP?

I've asked this on MN before and I'll ask again.
You tell me how to do it. If you're so full of complaints, how about some solutions? And I don't mean things like "train more doctors", because that's nothing to do with me as a GP.
I mean what you think I, a GP, should personally do.
Should I work longer than my standard 13 hour days?
Should I not have annual leave?
I can't cut out breaks because I don't have them anyway. I suppose I could piss in a bucket in the corner of my room, which would save a few precious minutes walking up the corridor to the toilet.
Please, I'm all ears, tell me what I should do.

@LittleMy77
"I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want some sort of healthcare"
Just want to add that I don't think it's unreasonable for you to want a service you pay for. Nor do I think it's unreasonable for GPs to want to be paid for ALL the work they do? And yet they get vilified for this

Who would want to go into medicine? Answer? Lots of people. It’s heavily, heavily over subscribed. More so than any other course. Lots of people that would make great doctors don’t get a look in. It may seem draconian, but what’s the other option? People that we as a country have invested heavily in training swanning off overseas at the drop of a hat. I think those that have taken all of the training the UK has provided but are unprepared to give back to the country ought to return the funding they have benefitted from. It’s what many people have to do in other professional services roles. Mr & Mrs £120k can no doubt afford it

Most medical students qualify with 6 figure debts. How many do you think are going to sign up for the privilege of paying 100k+ for 20 years of servitude, even if it were legally enforceable, which is isn't? (Even short-term training agreements are an employment law grey area, let alone 20 years).

I have never said it’s the fault of the GP, my complaint is around the fact that my private insurance gate keeps access to private health apts by asking for a GP referral which in this climate of long wait times for non urgent GP apts, makes no sense

I agree, It’s 10 years of chronic underfunding and back door privatisation that’s got us here

You can’t do more with less cash. The bigger issue here is the people facing the complaints and issues are front line staff and not the people making the decisions about funding allocation (or lack of)

The other week I had a gum infection, I've had them before and knew exactly what I needed was a prescription for Amoxicillin, unfortunately I can't get a dental appointment for love or money, so I ended up having an consultation with one of those online places, I had to pay £30 for the prescription, then £8 for the medicine, definitely worth the money, let me know if you want me to post a link to the clinic I used.

@LittleMy77

How is the practices of a oriented health care provider the fault of the nhs?

@JustFrustrated

Highlighting the entitlement I've been talking about.