Are GPs ever going to get better?

[KassandraOfSparta]

Just phoned my GP to try to get an appointment as I need to see/speak to a doctor. First appointment was a telephone consult in a fortnight.

My issue is indeed something which probably can be dealt with over the phone but if it hadn't been, wait for 2 weeks to speak to someone and then wait again to be seen in person? Is it any wonder people are going to A&E and queuing there instead?

(And before anyone pipes up, yes it is something which needs a GP. I sat through several repeats of the "if you have an issue with your eyes, see the optician. Pharmacists can help with minot ailments" message. Also to preempt the other common question, no online anything, just a webform to fill in for a repeat prescription).

Out of interest, how much is a private consulation with one of those online GP things and a private script? Starting to think things are not evern going to improve.

DP and I are both GPs. Never worked full time. On the days we did work we'd go in at 8am and finish at 9pm. The cleaners would be waiting for us to leave so they could lock up. And still we'd get accused of being lazy and not doing enough.
Current undergoing a complaint from a patient who refused to take medication and now has complications from the untreated issue. It's just soul crushing
Have secured job abroad. Off in the new year.
Can't help but feel bad for the 4000 patients DP and I could have been responsible for (average GP cares for 2000+ each)
I do love the NHS but the entitlement and pressure from patients and the service is too much
Have many friends who have moved abroad (all in the same place where we are off to) We are the new generation of GPs and already 7 of our colleagues have emigrated
120K PA 40 hour weeks one weekend a month
No ridiculous red tape or letters for the council or bloody sick notes for people clearly fit to work
Just treating actual sick people. Can't bloody wait.
NHS is haemorrhaging GPs. It's terrifying what's to come.
I've told my family to get health insurance and those that can't afford it I'll pay for private appointment. Scary times

@SleepyRich

another parent had demanded an emergency call back regards their child and when I asked how they were this afternoon they were at school! So clearly not an emergency.... These are just examples just from today!

How long had the parent been trying to make an appointment for? My SIL did exactly this but had called several days across two weeks to be told to call again tomorrow. Tomorrow never came and she was stuck in an endless cycle. Couldn’t keep my niece off school forever but she did need seeing.

I have just changed. Used to go to a Modality partnership practice who are a massive corporate and the whole thing is being run into the ground. Access is impossible. My Dad was refused an appointment with dysphagia! He rang Bupa and had an endoscopy 2 weeks later- it’s cancer. It’s been found early but Modality would have left him to die.
We have changed to a local independent practice which is a teaching practice and they have been amazing so far.

Sorry to hear that. Don’t lose sight that people are frustrated by the level of service they’re receiving and not necessarily individual gps.

@HotDogKetchup
I appreciate people are frustrated but when that frustration shoots my way, I'll be looking for the nearest exit!
Still so apprehensive about actually leaving the NHS but I've heard a better work life awaits

I agree that most HCP I have seen in my time with my old practice were kind, caring, interested. They have got less so recently.

The most recent encounter involved me ringing up and saying “I need an appointment with Dr X”
Reception “no, impossible, nothing bookable, ring for an urgent tomorrow”.
Me “it isn’t urgent it’s about HRT, she’s the women’s health GP and the nurse told me to speak to her”.
Reception “don’t care, nothing bookable”
Me “OK another GP with a women’s health interest?”
R “Ok 3 weeks with Dr Y- booked - telephone“

3 weeks later
Dr Y rings. I explain the situation.
Her “You need to speak to Dr X.”
Me “I know but she doesn’t have any appointments, I was told you can help me”.
Dr Y “No, apart from being a woman I don’t know a great deal about HRT. I specialise in diabetes!”
Me “OK so please book me with Dr X”.
Dr Y “I can’t, computer says nothing bookable. Ring for an urgent.”
Me “But it’s not urgent.” Head explodes!

@Bickles frustrating isn’t it - I don’t want to take an urgent appt away from someone with a genuinely urgent need, but as you’ve found you can’t get seen otherwise.

Do you really think the GPs have suddenly stopped caring? Or do you think the Practice is over-whelmed, and struggling to cope with increasing demand? Workload is up at least 1/3 on pre-Covid, more in many places.

As a patient, it is shit. But stop blaming GPs for the fact there aren't enough of us. A smaller and smaller workforce is coping with more and more demand. This has been predicted for 15 years, yet the Government has done nothing. Now we are reaping what they have sown.

No one goes into general practice to give a bad service. If you are lazy, there are easier ways to earn a living. It is utterly demoralising to be run ragged, yet constantly slagged off in the media and SM. No wonder the younger generation are opting out.

It really isn't complicated. Very simple in fact. There are not enough GPs, and too many patients. That's it.
It's just the same as waiting in the queue for a ride at a theme park. There are too many people wanting to go on the ride, and not enough seats on the ride for all those people. So they have to wait until the people who arrived first have been in the ride, then they get to have a go.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow, thank you for taking the time to put across so eloquently what so many of us doctors are trying to say

FWIW, for the poster who discussed insurance and America, how many people were bankrupted in the USA through medical costs even with insurance... Was it c500-600 thousand per year? Having insurance doesn't mean all costs are covered in America? How many diabetics die because their medication isn't covered?

I totally get where you're coming from. I'd be doing the same if I was younger. Luckily I'm old enough to be partially retiring shortly.
But many people on MN don't understand , they don't want to understand, they just want to moan about how lazy and overpaid GPs are. If they only knew. I would challenge anyone to shadow me for a day and ever use the words "lazy" and "GP" in the same sentence again.

I think it is worse than PPs not understanding, I don't think the red top coverage and political narrative by the government has happened by accident.

This is an interesting point. Retention seems to be a huge issue with newly qualified doctors leaving in droves.
But this is a draconian solution. Who would want to go into medicine under such conditions?
There must be a better route to improving retention. Young junior doctors in particular seem to be pretty badly treated and they are expected to stick it out for the jam tomorrow.

InstantMagic - I'm sure you'd be quite rightly offended if I said that I struggle to feel sorry for you as you get great holidays. I am aware from listening to teachers on the news and in real life that teachers work long hours, are underpaid, abused in the media and frequently work during their holidays. It is a shame that you feel the need to compare these two very different jobs and race to the bottom. Surely you know what it is like to be smeared in the media, and you know that the public's perception of your job is often very different to reality?

Regardless, it doesn't matter whether you feel sorry for GPs or not or whether you think their hours and job are easy. Stripping away all emotions about what you personally think of GPs, the fact is that there is not enough to meet the demand.

Perhaps the PPs who feel the best solution is to build barriers to exit and reduce the incentives to entry for a profession that takes c10 years to fully qualify rather than address the systemic toxicity and structural failings for the workforce might want to have another think about other opinions they hold strongly too? By the way, I've not seen any practice hand back a contract willy nilly nor someone whose spent more than that ten years with all the social constraints change career on a whim.

I'm curious to know why they're gate keeping my access to a private specialist.

Which I'm going to use to avoid strain on the NHS....

I just need the referral letter to take to my provider. The NHS GP has said I need this referall....so why have I had to wait over a week for the letter?

Please refer to my helpful analogy about the theme park ride. It might make it clearer for you.
Do you accept standing in a queue at the till in Morrisons? Or do you feel that the people in front of you should be pushed aside and your food run through first?

@JustFrustrated
That will be down to your choice of private specialist. When I go private I make sure to pick providers that DON'T require a referral letter
Also note another example of stuff that gets blamed on the GP that is NOT their fault

Practices are contractually obliged to be open 0800-1830, so that's automatically an 11 hour day, even if you only allow 15 minutes either end to take your coat off and switch your computer on. In reality, it's extremely unusual to finish on time - the GP PP who describes the cleaners waiting for her and her husband to do is typical. You might make out the door by 7 pm on occasion, but very often the price of that is logging on later that evening, to finish up. And very commonly GPs will be still there at 8 pm or later.

This is true, whether you are a partner or employee. I have been both, and the clinical workload doesn't vary much. But, on top of all the above, the partner also has to manage a small business. So partners tend to work even longer hours plus, with the shortage of GPs, partners are forced to cover the gaps in the rota.

That's awful! And you can't even sue when they fuck up like that 🙄🤔

When Tony Blair left government satisfaction with the NHS was at an all time high, and waiting lists at an all time low. So of course it's not the Tories 🙄

I am sorry to hear the poor working conditions from GPs on this thread. I can't honestly imagine treating 80 people in one day, it seems insane

It's work, I'll be sure to ask them not to use either of the two main providers 🤷🏼‍♀️

Fucks sake. Can't win. Get told if you want better times, go private. Try to go private and get told you're doing it wrong.

There is no other company or provider I'd accept a wait time of over a week from.

People need to stop treating the NHS like a sacred cow and start doing something about it.

I think some things have been good , I had a smear which was abnormal I was referred to gyne within a week. Then the GP phoned me to check me how I am. They aren't good with chronic health issues or what they deem as minor things but they have been really on it with my care. Very happy .