You're not working class!

[Womeninthesequel]

Ridiculous conversation with an NCT acquaintance - we as a group were discussing the cost of living crisis and it was mentioned that working class families are really going to struggle. He scoffed and said "not all working class families, we're going to be fine." To which I goggled, and said "you're not working class!" He looked cross and said "of course I am, I grew up on a council estate, my dad was a binman."

This is true, he definitely is from a working class background, but he went to university, then med school, is now a senior surgeon doing mainly private practice, he makes six figures (which he'll tell anyone who walks past him) and his house is currently on the market for £1.2mil! He's not working class! This was pointed out to him (not by me) and he was vastly offended. He seems to genuinely believe that his upbringing means he'll always be working class, but that's not right, right? Class isn't innate, is it?

He's a bit of a dick in general, but this has raised a wider conversation at home. DH is from a working class background and is now uni educated and a professional and feels he's now middle class, so is confused by the idea that he's not.

Of course he is a 100% middle class with working class parents.
Assuming he has adopted middle class values and lifestyle and tastes. He is a very educated with a highly respectable and esteemed profession. Most definitely not working class!

you are the confused one!

Completely agree!

He's working class. New money. Or emerging Middle class by the new categories

I think his point will have been that not all working class are necessarily low income. Maybe he was defending the assumptions made about the working class. I actually totally see his point and understand his reaction.

This is nonsense. How to define class is one of
the most contested issues in sociology, there’s all sorts of approaches, but there’s no major school of thought that says it’s just about your parents’ jobs - except when you are still a child yourself, of course.

I love the idea that because there is government campaign it makes something true! Social mobility includes things like wealth and health which have nothing to do with class.

🤣🤣 Yep.

YABU. Class and money aren't the same thing.

This is the first time I've read this type of threads. 😁

As explained over and over by countless people who left their class behind, everything they knew was gone the day they left uni.

A large rainbow appeared and zapped them up the invisible class ladder.

They no longer speak to or associate with old friends or family members that didn't make it up the ladder or secretly shudder at their wc ways.

Funnily they don't fit in with the born mc people either.

It's a funny one. 😄

He is working class. He absolutely is.

I transitioned from working class to middle class between the ages of 15 - 17 when I learnt what a cafetière was and went skiing. I now fully identify as middle class. I even go to Waitrose sometimes.

He was born and raised in the working class but his work and lifestyle as an adult are middle class. His children will be raised in the middle class, but who knows what their work and lifestyle as adults will be.

The external markers of moving between classes seem clear; however the internal transition is much more difficult. So the lived experience of being a working class person living a middle class lifestyle is probably quite accurate.

He sounds down to earth to me . What a fantastic upbringing he had . Well done to his parents. A triumph against the odds . Working Class with standards .

I've popped back on to say that a lot of people can decide your "class " from your accent. I have a strong regional accent and remember when a young colleague ( her Dad was a Dr, her brother was a Dr etc ) was telling a story about her school days and turned to me to explain what exeat meant. I did Latin at my free Grammar school thank you very much!

Class isn't innate, is it?

I think it is innate. If you put lots of people in a room and didn't ask them about their education, jobs or how much their house was worth, you would still be able to make a judgement about which class you think they are.

I have had people tell me to my face that I am working class. It is very much judged on the way I talk, as in my accent, and the way I act. I probably have a lot more money coming into my household than a lot of MC people, but I am still WC. That's not me saying that, it's them.

It used to bother me that people referred to me as WC, as if it was derogatory. I've had a few "well that's because you are working class" comments. Now I am glad I am WC. I've mixed with a lot of MC as my DC go to a private school and I'd take my WC family and friends over them anytime.

I'm not sure I relate to this. Apparently I'm now elite but my childhood was precariat. I've jumped from the very bottom to the very top. It seems to put too much emphasis on home ownership - which wasn't as much of a class indicator when I was little. It only became one when Maggie sold off all the council houses.

In surveys collecting statistical data, he'd be middle class (social group A).

If you have to get up on a Monday morning and go to work you are working class.

Nope

If you have to get up on a Monday morning and go to work you are working class

What if you work P/T Tues to Thurs?

Bloody hell MN, can't you give this one a rest for a while? Let people self define as they see fit, it's their life.

Of course he’s middle class. Though it might feel like it, there isn’t a caste system in the U.K.

sociologists look at the individuals job and educational background to define what class they are. You can be born working class and become middle class and vice versa.

it’s just that people’s identities don’t shift so quickly.

Definitely middle class. I bet he's making sure his kids get a good education, nice holidays and, as you say, big house.
People who try to deny their privilege though 🙄

It's not just about denying privilege though. There's a cultural aspect, feelings around supposed rejection or disavowal of one's background/heritage, family ties, ways of being or habits, and feelings around belonging and authenticity.

If a young man moved to the UK from, say, Iran, learnt to speak excellent idiomatic English with little accent, married a UK-born person, became a British citizen, had a job and a life in the UK and little British children, would you really feel it was your place to tell him he's not Iranian if that's what he felt himself to be? He might well still feel Iranian, as well as acknowledging he's now a British citizen with a British family. He would still have that background and childhood, maybe some habits and preferences, and still have other family in Iran. I might think it was okay for Iranians to question whether he was truly Iranian any more, but for anyone else it would seem a bit rude to insist that he's now British and shouldn't consider himself anything else.

It's not exactly the same, I know it's an imperfect analogy, but people often do feel that their background, childhood, and culture and family of origin are an important and indelible part of their identity.