You're not working class!

[Womeninthesequel]

Ridiculous conversation with an NCT acquaintance - we as a group were discussing the cost of living crisis and it was mentioned that working class families are really going to struggle. He scoffed and said "not all working class families, we're going to be fine." To which I goggled, and said "you're not working class!" He looked cross and said "of course I am, I grew up on a council estate, my dad was a binman."

This is true, he definitely is from a working class background, but he went to university, then med school, is now a senior surgeon doing mainly private practice, he makes six figures (which he'll tell anyone who walks past him) and his house is currently on the market for £1.2mil! He's not working class! This was pointed out to him (not by me) and he was vastly offended. He seems to genuinely believe that his upbringing means he'll always be working class, but that's not right, right? Class isn't innate, is it?

He's a bit of a dick in general, but this has raised a wider conversation at home. DH is from a working class background and is now uni educated and a professional and feels he's now middle class, so is confused by the idea that he's not.

This kind of stereotyping is offensive.

I grew up working class, Dad was a fitter at a factory, have a working class Northern accent. However now in my late 30s I have a masters degree, a specialised career (although joint income is still 5 figures but comfortable) and own a small semi detatched house outright in a nice part of Cheshire.

10 years ago I'd probably still claim to be working class, now I don't think I can claim that, but my accent and mannerisms kind of exclude me from claiming to be middle class unlike my husband who also has an (unidentifiable) Northern accent is middle class.

I think Jason Manford refers to it as "muddle class" not that I'm a millionaire or anything. But I'm a lot more bloody comfortable than most and certainly wouldn't be so pig ignorant to try and claim working class status when discussing poverty.

Oh also I would rather have my fingernails pulled than vote Tory and have palpable disgust for anyone who does.

@carefullycourageous i don’t know.. apart from the bet365 (although we don’t mind a dabble on an accy now and then) it’s pretty spot on 😆 I love a bit of dunelm (not so much grey velour diamanté though) 😉

Theres nothing wrong with stereotyping us, it is what it is, we love our dunelm, b&m, primarni and cheeky Costco runs on a dodgy card.. because it’s what we can afford, I’d be sitting back on my Chesterfield, feet on a F&M’s hamper, stroking my Siamese watching antique roadshow quite happily if I was MC too, we are what we are and what we can afford.

Yes, but not all WC people are the same (I should know).

I always describe myself as Mixed Class

@carefullycourageous b’jesus.. it was a joke

I went to Nursing school in the 70s….University College Hospital. One of the first lecturers we had clarified. You may be from a working class, middle class or upper class family….but as a nurse, you become middle class! I know we ar3 middle class…kids all went to uni…husband a doctor….but I am from a working class family….my roots and politics are firmly working class…but economically and culturally, we are middle class. Your doctor friend is a fool….and an arrogant fool.

He is from a working class background and brought up with those principles but is now Uber middle class. End of. FFS

You can’t change class regardless of how successful you become. As a poster said upthread he’s working class but his children are middle class.

Your job, salery, education and upbringing dictates your class but upper class is not obtainable unless your born into it. Or so I thought 🤔

Clearly “working class”, “middle class” have two separate meanings. Ie

1. your current salary/profession
2. your background (ie your parents salary/profession)

that said, I always think the definition of class which explains most about how society is controlled and functions is the following:

if you make the bulk of your money by selling 1 hour of your time for X amount of money, then you are of the “working” class in the grand scheme of things, regardless whether X = £5 or £500. Because that’s not how the super rich make money.

I'm working class and bloody proud of it, despite what alot of people think it's not a swear word. I like expensive highend stuff, always have but I'm a sale, discount store second hand girl. We are not all the same ( hate grey).

Class is not only about money, it's about beliefs and actions.

fuck off house and earn a fortune. Urgh.

What’s your income? Nosy, I know, but huge is subjective!

This.

That's an interesting way of looking at it, because it puts the vast majority of traditional middle class jobs firmly in the working class. You know, lawyers, doctors, dentists, basically all professions.

Showing that the middle class is basically a fabrication to make the wealthier and more "respectable" working class feel like they are distanced from "the great unwashed" when in reality they are all just serving the elite.

This makes me think me of my dad . His parents (born in the early 20th century) were a civil servant and a stay-at-home mum. He is absolutely sure he's 'working class' because his grandparents included hop pickers with little by way of eduction. My dad went to a very fancy public school under the 11 plus scheme, and from there to Oxford on a closed scholarship accessible only to students who'd been to that public school (the vast majority of whom were, of course, fee paying). In my adult life I've never earned as much, adjusted for inflation, as he earned as a starting salary. I'm solidly middle class, and my dad would always say his children are middle class, because we grew up with a parent who'd 'made good' and earned his way out of being working class. But, we've been eligible for benefits and we will be again; neither DP nor I works a job that requires more than GCSEs. How do you count it all?

It also makes me think about my DP. Her parents didn't work for most of her life - her dad had an accident when she was 4, and though he wasn't disabled in the normal sense, he couldn't continue the job he'd been doing and he never got another one. Her mum worked part-time for a handful of years but kept being let go because she couldn't cope - so most of my DP's life, both of her parents have been out of work. But they still very earnestly identify as working class.

IMO people's class identities have very little to do with any objective reality!

Think you’re a bit out of order TBH

Given that mannerisms and accents etc can be learned, then this is no indicator of class.
All I know is that ‘middle class’ tends to be full of people trying to disassociate themselves from being working class sadly. Nobody should want to be middle class and ‘aspire’ to the nauseating trends of Boden clothes, holidays in Cornwall with the cock-a-poo, probably a Tesla and every other cliché (the list is long……)
Why can’t people just be truly individual, like what they like regardless of the masses and actually not care? Why do people have so much to prove about their worth, by subscribing to a social tribe?
I have no idea what ‘class’ I am having had a very mixed bag of exposure and circumstances and nor do I care. What I do care about is how I make people feel, how good a wife/mother/sister/friend I am and I would never choose friends based on their perceived ‘social class’. I’ve been judged in the past as not fitting in due to perception of my social kudos and what I have to offer (…..based on perceived class I think) and I don’t want those friends anyway. All I know is that I’m in a good and happy place with a lot of life experience behind me which I hope makes me entirely non judgemental.

@CovidCath Great post.

People would be much happier if they didn't squeeze themselves into social boxes.

I have some old friends who attended university and consider themself mc now, imo they appear very detached from everything that they knew and the place they're trying to be.

We meet once a year or weddings/funerals some of the judgemental comments they have made have caused me to shudder inside.

It’s ironic that in a society where people feel there is a lack of social mobility, the evidence points in another direction. Plenty of people regularly become upwardly mobile financially which is fantastic and I’m a big fan of baking more pies and giving people a bigger slice. A strong society is one where more people are happy and feel valued. However, people should stop this business of trying to fit into the accepted perception of middle class and proving they got there by shouting about it. . I have way more respect for the traditional working classes (or low income earners) who are far more invested in their families than what their neighbours think of their car on the drive! Middle class behaviour is so gauche and shows such complete lack of comfort and confidence in the self. Maybe it’s because the working class have solid jobs that are actually required by society, whereas there’s lots of ‘fresh air’ wafting around the middle class that has a less solid base but pays more.? Eg holiday firms suffered under covid whereas supermarket workers became ‘key workers’. Marketing jobs were culled……Ultimately, the holiday firm pays more as do the people paying blue sky thinking marketers but none of it is strictly necessary……

I still see myself as working class due to my upbringing and background. Others wouldn’t see me as that.

I still see myself as working class due to my upbringing and background. Others wouldn’t see me as that.

I think that must be a lovely place to be.

Strong links to your culture that enables you to empathise and understand while enjoying the success from the hard work you put in creating your success.

In WC circles you're one of the good ones we tell others about.

Everyone around here love's a success story.

There are 3 teachers who were past pupils in the local school it creates pride and role models within the community from the DC.

First generation university leavers are not uncommon and are hugely celebrated locally from granny to the local shop assistants.

'All I know is that I’m in a good and happy place with a lot of life experience behind me which I hope makes me entirely non judgemental.'

and

'Nobody should want to be middle class and ‘aspire’ to the nauseating trends of Boden clothes, holidays in Cornwall with the cock-a-poo, probably a Tesla and every other cliché'

Posted in the same post with not even a whiff of irony. I take it self awareness isn't one of your strong points😂