to think keeping ds in at break is an inappropriate punishment?

[Faithin]

Ds is 9, autistic and currently being assessed for adhd.
today he had to stay in at break time to write an apology to a teacher for not doing his work in a maths lesson.
he told me that during m maths he left the class crying, was upset, got told he had to go back in and complete the work, he didn't do anything naughty as such but didn't do any of the work (because he finds it difficult)
his ehcp says he needs a lot of support, regular movement breaks, and to be able to leave the classroom when he is overwhelmed etc obviously in more detail but along those lines
I only know about this because he managed to poke a hole in his had with a pencil during the time he was being kept in at break so he explained what happened.
AIBU to be really annoyed? Why are they making an autistic 9 year old write an apology to a full grown adult for struggling at school?? For things related to his difficulties with learning?

*hole in his hand

There’s clearly a whole lot more to this; there always is! Just ask his teacher what happened.

Children wit ASD should not be made to write apology letters as a punishment, they need clear action/consequences that follow a natural path. He should be using a now and next board to show that maths is now and reward/motivator is next, if he doesn't do the now/maths he can't move onto next/reward. Sounds like the teacher needs some educating on ASD friendly teaching strategies (I'm assistant head at a special school for children with ASD)

A whole lot more in what way?
Regardless, keeping a very hyperactive sensory seeking child inside at break time is never going to be an appropriate way to deal with the situation. He struggles massively to remain in the class for the time he is supposed to let alone extra time.

I'd ask for a meeting with the SENCO to review what support he currently has and what support he needs to ensure things like this aren't happening in future.

He should not be losing breaktime as a punishment full stop and he certainly should not be losing it due to behaviour related to not being supported properly in lessons. Did you know you can get it written to his EHCP that removal of break is not to be used with him?

If any child finds the work too hard then it's up to the teacher to find a solution to this. Punishing is totally unacceptable.
I think I know the answer to this but did he magically complete the work or did he basically wait until everyone came back in again? How was his mood for the rest of the day when he'd been denied his break which might have meant that he was refreshed for late morning work ?

It's not an appropriate punishment.

I'd ask for a meeting with the teacher (with the SENCO as well) and talk to them about it.

He didn't complete the work or write the letter, he ended up really upset because he really hurt himself with his pencil and stabbed a hole into his palm during the time he was meant to be writing the letter, so he was really fixated on that and that it hurt and was bleeding etc so the whole thing just put him in an awful mood tbh and definitely didn't help the situation at all

I disagree. I have two children with asd. Children with asd are all different. Some cannot function in a mainstream environment because they can't cope with the demands or the sensory overload. However, some do function well enough with support to access the curriculum and make progress. Sometimes they (like other kids) make choices that are not the ones they need to or should make. He presumably needs to work on his maths. There is a finite amount of time in a lesson. If he decides on a given day to not do his work then there needs to be a consequence for this. I would personally prefer that to be doing the maths he didn't do during part of lunchtime or completing a few questions before going out to play. If you decide now that his disability means he never faces any consequences, you are effectively saying that none of the rules apply. The parts of the story you are missing are undoubtedly the numerous attempts the adults involved made to help your son engage with his learning. I have worked with many children with asd. There have been some children for whom the classroom setting did not work even with skilled one to one support and plenty of safe spaces and adaptations. I have had some children whose needs were high but whose parents worked with me to ensure that the child engaged and did what they were capable of. I have also had parents who wanted their child to do well but were not able to trust the staff. You have made the decision to be annoyed without even speaking to the adults. You have made this call based on what your nine year old autistic child has told you.

It sounds like he needs more scaffolding at the start of the lesson to check that he has understood the task and that he knows where to start, possibly questions broken down and given to him one at a time so he's not overwhelmed by what seems like a huge list in front of him. There should then be someone checking in with him during the task to make sure he's still on track, still coping, and still understanding what's needed then a check in at the end to make sure he's completed everything and that he's happy with it, also that he's confident he gets it and to go over anything he's unclear on.

School have massively dropped a ball here considering that he's been so disregulated and distressed by the lack of support that he's basically sat there self-harming instead of doing the work. I'd also be asking what safeguarding measures will be taken to prevent a reoccurrence of this.

Does he have a TA who supports him 1:1? We would have a consequence for missing break if he had been disruptive for the class at my school.

But in the situation you have said, no way. He would be given work he was able to achieve or had a lot of support during the lesson if we believed he could do it. I would most definitely be asking some questions!

I have good reason to be annoyed this is nowhere near the first incident of this school not treating ds right.
yes that might be true for your children but it is not the case for ds. Autism isn't the only thing going on for him, he almost certainly has adhd also (just waiting in the report from his assessment but it's very obviously) His 'working memory' scored at the 8th percentile. So in the very low range. Working memory being vital to be able to focus on things like worksheets and especially maths where you need to hold the numbers in your mind.He cannot will himself into being able to do it.

It’s about the worst and most ineffective possible punishment they could have come up with. Children with autism usually need extra breaks and less writing, not more.

Yes if the work IS too hard. Children very often though say the work is too hard when it's really not. The curriculum is challenging and allowing children to give up every time the answer isn't immediately obvious won't help them in the long run. May well not be relevant here but a child's perception that work is too hard does not always mean the teacher needs to change the work.

In the real world schools are struggling for funding for pens and books, let alone fancy stuff like this. We have over 100 kids in our school that need a fidget cushion, but we only have 1 😒.
This doesn't sound like a training issue, this sounds like a teacher at the end of their wick with little to no support from above and left to it.

It's more complicated than that, ds has difficulties with learning that go beyond wether he understands the work or not.

Totally inappropriate!
They tried this with my son so I had it written into his EHCP that he must get his break times to run around and try socialise.!

I hope this doesn't come across as inflammatory because I really don't mean it to be. But if he has problems at this stage accessing the curriculum, and you say yourself he's 8th centile for retention, then is MS really the best place for him? Where he will continually be judged against the bell curve of his peers, and later in his education, the country? The curriculum is becoming harder, not more inclusive, and that's not on the teacher, but on governmental policy. The pressure will be on the teacher to get your ds up to standard, which you are acknowledging is an impossible standard. Many schools will expect the teacher to have a log of interventions that they have implemented to ensure ds gets up to that unattainable standard.

My advice is to get off Mumsnet seeking advice from strangers who do not know you on your child. As all you doing is responding defensively to people.

request a meeting with the teacher and the Senco, keep records of incidences, meetings ect. then take it from there.

The school have a complaints policy if you continue to be dissatisfied.

Anyone saying yabu is wrong. His ehcp isn’t being followed and that punishment is punishing him for inadequate support and scaffolding. Taking break away is never okay for children with adhd or any other lag in skills or abilities that means accommodations are required.

I would echo the above poster. Clearly you've already made your mind up that he is being treated unfairly so I'm not sure why you are bothering here?

In my experience as a teacher we work really hard to support students with their needs and I wouldn't imagine any professional going out of their way to deliberately upset a little child. I would speak to an adult staff member before immediately taking the word of your son as to why he was kept in at break. This would give you the chance to openly and calmly explain your concerns should they remain after you've heard the other side of the story.

The child has a neurodevelopment condition and learning difficulties, the work should be differentiated to take into account his individual needs.

Please arrange to see the SENDco and perhaps look to see if there are parent support facebook groups in your area. I don't use Facebook for social media but do for this as its invaluable to connect with others.

He absolutely should be having his full breaks and lunch (and extra movement breaks as per echp) and do insist on this. Do see the sendco. Not all teachers are up with asd /adhd unfortunately.

He may need extra support. Does he have any 1-1 hours? This could be an argument for jt.

Also contact the SENDIASS for your area. This is gov funded by not linked to school and should be able to offer help and advice with ehcp and dealing with school.

You are right to be concerned. Its likely a staff member not trained in SEN yet a year of being told they're "naughty" can really damage a child and lead towards school refusal/breakdown of setting.

Mumsnet may not be the best place for advice as alluded to above. But please know you are on the right tracks. Your poor son needs support to access here not punishment

Arsey unfortunately I see this time and time again. It isn't teachers going out of their way to be mean but trying to "crack down" on behaviour in the first term/class or just seeing the child as being willful/naughty. It's a lack of understanding of autism and adhd. They should keep their breaks and lunch as in order to manage and cope in class they need the break. Keeping a child like this in doesn't achieve anything.

@Anothermother3, that all depends on whether or not he has an EHCP.
@Faithin, if he doesn't, you need to make that your first priority - an EHCP is a requirement in law that has to be followed. If he does, then you will likely know what is included in it, and whether or not it needs to be reviewed.
Either way, your first stop is definitely the SENCO as PP have suggested.
Good luck.