Going to scotland and English?

[thefoggiest]

Hi guys, I want to move back to the UK and am considering giving Scotland a try.
I just spoke to my aunt about it and she said prepare to get some serious attitude. She used to live and work near Loch Lomond! That was 20 years ago now. I have actually never been to Scotland before.

Be honest with me: is what she says true or is she being OTT/outdated? I would live in one of the big cities, probably Edinburgh (not Glasgow).

Scotland is definitely more friendly and welcoming than anywhere in the south of England.

Yeah, don't come to Glasgow. We're all basically Rab C Nesbitt and spend our time getting pished and battering lumps out each other. 🙄

I'm English, I've lived near Loch Lomond for over twenty years now, and have never had any comments made to me about being English.

You might get attitude because of your attitude.

You sound friendly and welcoming - where abouts do you live and is everyone there as friendly and welcoming as you?

Nah, you'll not get abuse 😊 we're very friendly

It's a huge city. There is crime everywhere in the world. It stands to reason there will be some somewhere in a big city. But there are also loads of lovely parts of Glasgow

Relying on outdated or offensive stereotypes about Scots or Scottish places will not endear you to Scots.

Approach Scotland with an open mind and you'll find a lovely country with friendly people and strong communities.

Well thanks for putting me straight, I will have to just conclude that my aunt bears a grudge 😳

And I will go to Glasgow and check it out with an open mind. It was no disrespect meant to the city. In my head I just kind of equated it with Manchester which isnt a city I like at all despite most other people seeming to love it! That was unfair of me I guess.

It would be good to go to a third Scottish city on my trip and I'm thinking Inverness. Any thoughts on that?

I'm 42 and moved to Scotland when I was 4 to a RAF base, I have a very English accent

I moved to Aberdeen when I was about 20 and yeah I did get stuck for my accent in clubs etc and was walking home one night at 2am and hit over the head with a baseball bat and ended up in hospital

I was speaking on my phone and a man appeared behind me shouting I'm going to stab you , you English B*** and then he attacked me

20 years later I'd say Aberdeen is a much better place and I haven't come across anything negative for years.

Dear lord.
'Shit loads of crime'
🤦‍♀️

I don't think it's the attitude of the Scots that you should be worrying about...

I've lived in Scotland 31 years and nobody cares where you're from, as long as you're not an asshole.

It might be because Glasgow was once called the murder capital of Europe and the press jumped on it. It is very different today and you can read about it a little here if you're interested. www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/glasgow-was-once-the-murder-capital-of-europe-now-its-a-model-for-cutting-crime/2018/10/27/0b167e68-6e02-4795-92f8-adb1020b7434_story.html

If you come with an open mind you'll be fine. Scotland and especially the west coast and highlands are renowned for their welcoming hospitality. I moved here ten years ago from England and will never go back down South other than to visit family and for work. Being English in Scotland is no different than being Australian or South African or anything else.

I've lived and worked in Scotland for two decades, born and grew up in south of England and still have a v English accent. Have by and large experienced nothing but friendliness and welcome in my time here, especially in Glasgow where most people seem to go out of their way to be friendly to everyone... can be quite odd if you're not used to it!

To be fair glasgow has in the past had a reputation (at least to outsiders) that other places in Scotland doesn't. These days however it's a modern, vibrant city that has a lot going for it.

TBH OP if you want to be city based all of the major cities & towns in Scotland (Edinburgh/Glasgow/Dundee/Aberdeen/Inverness/Perth/Stirling etc) have lots going for them and really it depends on what kind of feel you want, whereabouts in the country you want to be etc and to some extent cost as to where you might want to go.

Hi- Glaswegian here.

nobody will care that you’re English.

what absolutely WILL get peoples backs up is your attitude that Glasgow is dangerous and crime ridden. I know you didn’t mean it to come across like that and you have been good enough to admit you were wrong, but just a heads up that saying things like that would be quite disrespectful up here and would absolutely make people dislike you immensely before they even get to know you. There’s some beautiful people parts of Glasgow and also some rougher parts, as with ANY city. Like I said, I understand that you didn’t really mean it like that but those kind of stereotypes are actually quite offensive and if you want to get along in Glasgow or pretty much anywhere in Scotland, don’t come out with things like that. it’s possible that there are things which are socially acceptable in your home city that would cause raised eyebrows up here so just don’t say anything which could be taken as offensive or insulting.

hope that helps! 👍

Assuming the OP is genuine, I would remind them that:

1. Scotland is a separate kingdom. The UK is what it says on the tin - a union of four distinct political, cultural and historic entities.
2. Until 1707, Scotland was a separate nation. It still has its own parliament and legal system, which are not the same as England's. It has it's own national church, too, which is not - unlike the CofE - governed by the monarch. It is "Presbyterian" - ie governed by democratic principle; very very different from (for eg) the Church of England.
3. Scotland has several of its own local languages. Not just Gaelic but Scots and modern versions of Norse. And several local dialects which are actually used, not just the subject of antiquarian curiosity.
4. It has a separate educational system, from primary schools upwards, and some of the very oldest universities in Europe. And a very long and proud tradition of esteem for education.
5. In many ways, it is much more European than England. The 'Auld Alliance' between Scotland and France is many centuries old and its influence can still be traced today. So can a tradition of looking towards Europe for trade and cultural contacts. The great Scottish 18th century Enlightenment - look it up - included many scholars who were at least in part educated abroad, especially in France and the Netherlands.
6. I can think of few places where the saying 'a cat may look at a king' is more appropriate. The tradition of free and fearless speech from whoever you are still flourishes. (Just look at Queen Victoria and how John Brown spoke freely to her.)
7. Glasgow is like nowhere else on earth. Yes, it has pockets of crime and deprivation - but what city doesn't, including Edinburgh? But it also has a fabulous cultural/media/arts scene, a very great many lovely green spaces, some of the best, utterly fantastic, Victorian architecture in the world, a world-class university and art school and people who are genuinely very, very kindly and friendly.
8. Scotland was in the 19th cent 'the workshop of the world'. It was home to a phenomenal number of scientists, engineeers, inventors, technologists. All world-famous. Also of medical pioneers - from anaesthetics to antiseptic surgery and the need for formal nurse training.
9. The people who worked in the above-mentioned heavy industries were skilled and proud. Some of them were well paid and well treated, but many of the poorest labourers and also others, who moved to cities to try to find work, lived in abject poverty. Probably far worse than that encountered in industrial cities in England. Yet out of that poverty grew phenomenal community values and also a great tradition of campaigning for social justice and welfare. That is - at least in part - where the "Glasgow culture" comes from.
10. The Scottish countryside was a very difficult place to live and thrive. (Much of Scotland is further north than Moscow, and farming is only possible because of the Gulf Stream and the infleunce of the sea. But even so, much of the land is rocky and marginal.) And many Scottish landowners (Scots nobles as well as English nobles) - alas - found it more profitable, from the 1707 Union onwards, to develop their estates as producers for the more prosperous English market down south, first with cattle, then with sheep. They got rid of - "cleared" - traditional tenants. At the same time, many small Scottish landholders/tenants - who were tough and enterprising - ALSO sought to leave Scotland in the hope of making a new life, first in Canada and North America, later in South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.
11. The patronising 'Romatic Scotland' tradition is a result of the above.
12. BEFORE YOU SETTLE IN SCOTLAND, for heaven's sake read up about all this and stop sounding so crass. I'd suggest the works (easy to read) of Prof.Tom Devine to begin with, but there are many others. Even if the details of all the above are not closely known by all Scots today, the very thriving culture in which we live in work is very, very strongly influenced by them.
13. And we welcome well-meaning incomers!

@Fluffysheep12345
No I appreciate that and I appreciate your measured reply. I have actually lived more of my life outside the UK than in it, including in Asia and Africa. I'm not culturally insensitive.

However this is a bit embarrassing but basically over lockdown I developed some mental problems. I was in a country where the lockdown was quite harsh and I developed a kind of agoraphobia and also a panic disorder. I hope that goes some way to explaining why I brought that issue up. I dont have the mental capacity to live somewhere that can be edgy right now, and it's sad because this never used to be an issue for me. The opposite in fact. I think having my powers of control over myself taken away on some level really broke something in me.

I am getting better though but I guess my priority would be a city that's manageable in size, has lots going on, and feels safe. In england I would go to york or sheffield for example.

I have lived in the majority of UK cities and what sets Edinburgh apart is that there are large areas of the city where it is relatively safe to walk the streets. The violent crime is in pockets, as opposed to mingled throughout the city. So if you walk home from Manchester City centre you would not only have a long walk but also go through some seriously dodgy areas, same in Leeds, and Newcastle, Bristol, Birmingham. Whereas Edinburgh because it is quite small if you live in many, many areas of the southern half of the city you can walk home from the city centre, and because of the way the city is laid out not go near any areas of high crime / urban deprivation. It really sets it apart from most other city’s. It feels a lot safer. That’s my perspective anyway. I don’t know Glasgow so cannot comment.

The Scottish are very friendly, obviously some aren't like every other country. Scotland is also very beautiful.

Lived in Glasgow for many years and moved there with an international school accent people thought was English. Honestly I had some jokey ribbing at school but not had one problem with it as an adult (I guess teenage boys aren't known for their maturity!). Glasgow is honestly an amazing city, I've lived in Glasgow and Edinburgh and much preferred Glasgow. People are so friendly and there is so much to do. Would strongly suggest you do look into Glasgow as an option f outdated stereotypes are the only reason you discounted it.

Re Inverness, it depends what you're looking for. To state the obvious, its a much smaller city than Glasgow or Edinburgh. Its also much further up north, which may be a consideration if you're going to travel down south to visit people etc often. It has the highlands on its doorstep so if you like outdoorsy stuff its a great and beautiful place to be. If you want bustling city life, to go to gigs/events etc its probably not for you.

I would say that Glasgow has a similar vibe to Manchester, in both cities I probably wouldn’t walk home at night on my own but I never think twice about doing it in Edinburgh. The one thing you should seriously consider is the potential pending independence vote (again!) and if you’d want to live in an independent Scotland.

OP, no-one from Scotland is going to come on here and tell you that their country is shite and that you'll get hassled by shit loads of crime. Will you be working while you are there? What sector will you be looking in?

It might be best to visit a few areas to get your head around places; make sure you visit in the winter too- the darkness always shocks me when I come home to the Highlands from down south.

I think it's the most marvellous place in the world but I am hopelessly biased.

And having lived in many other parts of the UK I’d say the ‘we’re much friendlier’ nonsense is just that - nonsense.

yes those that live in the SE can be more standoffish and money obsessed, thats probably as they have high stress lives. It doesn’t make them bad people. I’ve found the friendliest most down to earth people are those that hail from Lancashire/ Yorkshire. You get some really chippy Scottish nationalists up here.

Depends where you go. We moved to Ayrshire (Motherwell) where my step dads family are from & still live. Me, my mum & siblings all have English accents and let me tell you school was rough!!. It did teach me & my brothers to look after ourselves we were targeted daily. That was in the late 80's early 90's. My family are lovely but it really is a rough place where violence & sectarianism is alive & kicking