I don't want to be 'reigned over' anymore

[Yubgftr]

While I totally respect the Queen and how she served the country, I think it's now a good time to end the monarchy as I think modern society has outgrown it.

Just the idea that someone inherits the job of head of state through birthright and reigns over us peasants is crazy in this modern age. Then all the ceremonies, titles, line of succession are remnants of a completely different era and tbh remind me of episodes of The Tudors or Game of Thrones, it's just so archaic and out of place.

I think having to bow and curtsey to people just because they were born or married into a special family also seems ridiculous. Why should I have to curtsey to any of them? Not saying I'd be rude or disrespectful but having to bend my knee to a set of people as if they were deities, it's just insane! I think I'd actually feel humiliated.

I also don't get the fawning and crying outside the palace - by all means be respectful and recognise her contribution but crying about someone you've never met? To me it's OTT

Back in medieval times when there was little education and religion was used to manipulate the masses, I can understand why all the peasants went mad for their sovereign and saw them as annointed by God etc etc but we're much more enlightened now (most of us!) so we need to make way for a new way of doing things.

Even a new national anthem - why is it all about the king or queen and god saving them? Why not about the people, the nation as a whole?

That said, I also hate the idea of someone like Boris Johnson being head of state and I bet that's a role he'd go for if we were a Republic. Swings and Roundabouts!

YABU - God save the king, monarchy forever
YANBU - time to end the monarchy

I disagree with Charles and the rest hunting - but then, that is legal and much more accepted (obv apart from foxhunting, he shouldn't have politically commented, even though he wasn't king then) than the rest of the things on the list. Hunting threads on MN , for one, show that many people enjoy it and don't see anything wrong with it. The rest of the things are illegal.

As Tina Brown said astutely when I saw her talk at the Kite Festival the whole Windsor Dynasty now pivot's on Kate and whether she chooses to stay in the family if her husband has affairs and not go, rogue, as Diana did. Her reaction to William's affair with Rose Hanbury (I have family that know folk who work at the Sandringham Estate so I know it to be true) was to shut down the whole North Norfolk aristocratic set based around amazing parties at Holkham Hall and clip William's wings quite drastically.

Prince William is a very healthy lusty man who no doubt has numerous beautiful aristocratic women throwing themselves at him. He's strayed at least once so how can she trust him not to stray again?

Aristocratic women sort of know the rules about powerful rich men (I'll never forget being at a hedge fund party whose social set I was at the periphery of overhearing two women talking about their extremely rich partners - "you rent them you don't own them".

In the days where deference no longer is the rule of the day and cameras and social media are so pervasive, that's a very big ask.

Monaco, Norway and Netherlands monarchy cost around half of what ours do. I'd say, in comparison, ours is value for money.

@vera99 Once again, it's not a very good point you're making whatsoever, especially since the point I'm making is Queen's brief comment is highly neutral without leaning either way.

It is others who are reading into that what isn't really there. The press, Unionists, Nationalists, you.

Yet another media link really doesn't address this.

The Ashcroft Poll demonstrated neither this nor EU membership were significant factors in voters' decision in 2014. 🤔

There is no evidence for your assertion on that count.

Her reaction to William's affair with Rose Hanbury (I have family that know folk who work at the Sandringham Estate so I know it to be true) 🙄

Monaco is the size of a stamp with a population to match. There’s no comparison.

I think we can all agree there will never be another like the late Queen not in character or length of reign and it is no stretch of the imagination that this has truly been the high point of the Windsor dynasty. But from the peak of Everest, all views are looking down. Tina Brown fwiw doesn't publically agree there was affair.

Frankly, aside from a few topless vacation photos taken with a telephoto lens and one rumoured affair, William and Catherine have remained remarkably scandal free. About that affair rumour – that William strayed with a neighbour from their country-house circle – Brown debunks this myth, saying “The Cambridges believed it was all being spread by the older generation in Norfolk whose own years of sub-rosa activities made them assume most rumours were true.” She also writes that “well-sourced royal scribe” Richard Kay “affirmed to me that he strongly believes there was nothing there.” William sent a warning letter to the press. It was clear that, as Brown writes, Kate, “a national icon of flawless motherhood” must be protected, because “in the social media age, the monarchy would be unlikely to survive a messy rift in the House of Cambridge.”

www.everythingzoomer.com/arts-entertainment/2022/07/02/tina-brown-on-the-palace-papers-why-prince-charles-reign-is-crucial-to-monarchys-future/

Great but Turkeys human / women’s rights are shocking and their government hard line. Their the country history goes straight to funding a ropey regime.
Rather than the more egalitarian projects the monarchy support.

@DownNative When somebody says nothing other than pleasant platitudes and the prepared speeches of 'her' government then we can all project our own selves onto her. That was the strength of the Queen even for republicans like myself. Though it wouldn't take a genius to surmise she wants the union to sustain.
The problem of Charles with his spider writings and public meddling then is that blank canvas no longer holds. William unlike his father seems to get that and rightly so keeps his views and thoughts pretty much to himself.

I don’t believe for a second that William, being incredibly media savvy and a child from a family blighted by affairs, would risk an affair.

Public opinion matters to him too much and he would know that if he was caught out, the monarchy, already on shaky ground, would be over. The psychology of self-preservation would say no.

I call BS and I’m not even a royalist.

Brown in that quote reads like a barrister's brief without her committing herself either way but quotes others with great authority. She is a smart cookie and a great writer and raconteur.

@Ellami donrt be so naive. Charles got away with it for so long, hell even Andrew. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

on Datalounge, (I know, not the most accurate source!) they fiercely hate Harry and Meghan and say that the affair rumour was spread by someone called Nicole with connections to Meghan. I am sceptical of that- perhaps William's eye strayed for a bit, but no actual adultery occurred? There do seem to be things that foreign papers publish but ours don't.

@beatrice14 yes the British press has got much more careful about what they publish. This was kept well out of it.

There's a lot of research on institution and cult of king(queen)ship, and how that is played out in the modern era. The late Queen is recognized and widely seen as a classic of “parasocial behavior” (a one-sided relationship, you become attached to a person without actually interacting with them in any meaningful way, and leading to becoming emotionally invested in the lives and dramas of the royal family for example).

I've never met her, or seen her in real life, but did (and do) feel sad at her passing. Maybe from the outside it looked a life of privilege, but on a human level I'd assume it was challenging with respect to allegations of infidelity, family dynamics, sexual abuse, racism, the decline of empire, financial dealing compounded by a total lack of privacy and rabid press attention.

We're lucky to live in a place where we can get rid of the monarchy if enough people want it. But the reactions from people in the recent days shows it is very strong in UK today.

I actually dreamed last night I was working in a Royal plate factory at a marketing meeting discussing whether we should include Paddington on the Coronation plates. I was arguing against it but King Charles was insisting that it was the right thing to do. On waking I'm 50:50 I can see both sides!

Yes, they did, but times are very different now. It will be very clear to William that if he did the same he’ll lose public support at a time when there are more calls to abolish the monarchy.

Would people ever forgive Diana’s son for having an affair or hurting Kate? No. He’s not that stupid. Does he want to be as unpopular as Charles was during the whole Camillagate episode? No. Does he otherwise seem like someone with low morals? No.
William will be fully aware of how much is resting on his shoulders. He wouldn’t dare stray.
Attending parties where things got a bit messy might be another thing….hence if I was Kate, I’d have shut things down too and been cross at people for risking his reputation. That doesn’t mean there was an affair. Of course, if the family whose friend has a cat who lives in a royal residence actually comes up with proof, I’ll gladly eat my hat. Otherwise scurrilous gossip.

@Ellami is probably the truth tbf. Kate's not very good at hiding her moods though so the 'Kremlin' watchers reading the tea leaves will continue to have a field day if you'll pardon the cliches. A monarchy under relentless global social media onslaught is a new and untested thing, as is society and people and I'm not sure it's good in numerous ways sadly.

We're lucky to live in a place where we can get rid of the monarchy if enough people want it. But the reactions from people in the recent days shows it is very strong in UK today.

wait - I wasn’t aware there was any mechanism in place to get rid of the monarchy based on the will of the people? That’s the inherent problem! Yes, I can speak to my MP, start a petition, voice my opinion on here but there is no actual mechanism. Or did you mean that I can do all of the above without fear of death/gaol and I’m ‘lucky’ to have a right to free speech?

On the last point, amount of support, this thread currently tells a different story. Less than 50% support is not ‘very strong’.

A lawyer was questioned by coppers in Parliament Square for holding up a blank piece of paper and threatened with arrest if he wrote Not My King.

Chilling stuff.

twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1569576866071068673

50:50 about whether to include Paddington on the Coronation plates or about OP's question? Haha.

Imagine Liz Truss was the 'Head of state'! The Royal Family do bring in a lot of tourist money to the UK. The Queen was a nice person with good values and had a positive impact on a lot of peoples' lives so I'm not anti-monarchy at the moment. If King Charles has a positive impact on the UK then I'll continue to support the monarchy.

Good values? Hmm , shielding Andrew from questioning and paying out his accuser ...

Could you give some examples of things Elizabeth did that improved the lives of people here ( the good work you mention)?

Bizarrely it was should Paddington be included on the plate. The owners of the brand will be considering some sort of memorabilia I'm sure - every cloud and that ...

King Charles should knight Paddington for his services to the monarchy even though he did come here illegally on that cargo ship.

I have family that know folk who work at the Sandringham Estate so I know it to be true

I'm completely convinced.

Imagine Liz Truss was the 'Head of state'! The Royal Family do bring in a lot of tourist money to the UK.

Anyone else feel like banging their head on the desk?

Again. We came this 👌close to having a pro-Nazi king in WW2. If Chas had been an XX sperm not an XY one, Andrew would now be on the throne. Like or loathe Liz Truss, she has at least got where she is through some kind of democratic process and has not AFAIK lobbied for her own cosy set of favourable private laws that apply to no-one else in the whole country.