To think everyone loves traditions/culture unless it is our own? (UK)

[vitahelp]

This week has made me wonder about the above. I find so many people appreciate and enjoy tradition and culture when they are travelling overseas, but back in the UK will declare it outdated and embarrassing.

Things such as religion and places of worship are almost romanticised when abroad in certain countries, but back here are considered ridiculous by many. And I can’t help but think if we were watching from afar at a country who had just lost their Queen, the same people who are moaning this week would find it quite beautiful that people were wearing black and events were cancelled.

Is it just me who finds that culture and tradition are appreciated until they are on our doorstep?

I don’t visit other countries and expect a stereotypical smorgasbord of French in berets with strings of onions or Italians wearing crosses spinning pizza dough though.

Culture and traditions are a lot more complex and I don’t necessarily want to experience them - they’re not all pleasant.

One of the best things I can say about England is it is a comparatively secular country (even accounting for immigrant communities who may have a stronger religious following). I’ll take that over a Catholic patriarchy or Bible Belt mentality any day.

Unless a tradition is abusive (in my mind) then I love love love being in a country and seeing their traditions play out. My heart skips seeing people perform their special rites and I think a lot of people feel the same way. As Britons our history is one of travel and empire. Of imposing our rule over other nations and people, but now we see these other traditions and hopefully celebrate them. I do believe firmly, and I've lived all over the world (and still live outside of the UK) that no other country is as excited or celebratory about the cultural differences which we share as humans. It's a wonderful thing.
Bad people and xenophobes and small-minded people exist everywhere, but we are as a whole a wonderful and embracing nation.

Thank you to everyone who has replied. It’s nice to know others have noticed the same thing and I’m not going completely mad. But it’s been interesting reading everyone’s views on why it might be.

We quite enjoy our traditions in Scotland actually, young and old (although my Dad's generations were not that keen on wearing kilts).

I'm originally from NI, but went to Uni in England and worked there for many years too. I really enjoyed my time there, so much access to theatre, music, literature, arts, food, etc. Amazing (compared to my home place)! However, as with all things ... when they are under your nose you sometimes ignore it, or are just not aware of it. It often means stepping away, and looking back from a distance, to better understand it. London is probably one of the most visited cities by tourists in Europe? They're not going there for the weather :) or because it is cheap :) but largely good connectivity and the cultural experiences.

It also took living away from home for me to better appreciate my own cultural background. If you accept a definition of culture as "the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society", then living away for so many years made me more aware of the speech of home, the casual friendliness and helpfulness of people, the close community bonds and so on. Living back here now I love so much about this place but am also aware of the negatives (strongly unionist area rife with sectarianism, bonfires, the ugly marches, limited work opportunities, an underclass missing out on educational opportunities). Like everywhere there are pros & cons.

In additional to literature, the cultural impact of English music and sports (football and rugby) is also huge. An amazing achievement that is possibly overlooked by many English people when they have access to it everyday.

Ah fair enough. I am not religious, am from veryuch non religous country so don't pay attention to bits like having crosses.
I agree with some pps that it may be the novelty of different things. Even same religion can be one differently. But also agree with other pps that English (probably not British) like the self flagellate a bit about things and take some issues oddly. Like St George's flag. Racists in my country of course wave our flag heavily, we will never be ashamed of it though. I don't see why people can't display it and it sven sometimes appeared in newspapers if i remember correctly.

It's interesting as well to see what traditions in other countries are seen as outdated now by some people in those countries.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/14/black-pete-scandal-dutch-silent-sinterklaas

I completely agree OP. I sometimes think that people love to sound worldly experienced talking about what other cultural practices they've seen but are reluctant to take pride in British customs and traditions. I think in some cases they are afraid of being labelled zealots. Taking pride in British customs and history is a short circuit to being slandered as 'racist'. I have learned so much about British traditions this week and as someone who takes a keen interest in cultural things, I think it is fascinating to see.

England has the C of E; its mentality is rooted in a desire to avoid the "lets burn Protestants / Catholics" Tudor mentality and also the "cancel Xmas" Puritan mentality. Everything in moderation and def not too fanatical plz.

I think people appreciate other cultures that are not there own and are indifferent/ blind to their own cultures sometimes.
It’s like if you go to another family for Xmas and you like what they do and dismiss your own families practices ( opening presents, timing of events etc)
Lots of countries have elements of English culture. Wearing a white wedding dress started with Queen Victoria so is an English cultural practice but is adopted in a fair few other cultures but we don’t consider that cultural appropriation by those cultures generally.
I love British culture but it’s harder to recognise it when you live it.

Agree OP. Seems to be quite the thing to express shame at being British and sneering at our culture and traditions or claiming it was all made on the backs of other nations, so worthless anyway. Millions of people visit our countries to experience their various cultures and history. Why do they come if there's nothing worthwhile here?

British culture is hard to define. Like when Americans talk about a British accent? But there's lots of variety.

When I worked in the City of London I became fascinated by the place names : Bread Street , Poultry , Milk Street , Garlick Hill , Jewry, Mincing Lane, Cheapside. It was just a big market town .

I decided Mincing Lane was from mincemeat. But it's from Minchin - middle English for a nun. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing .

• Ps I was only a humble bank messenger, not some big shot trader !

It’s not really embarrassment about the tradition but about those who engage with it. Lots of working class people engage with their national sports and cultures and those who claim to hate football culture and are currently moaning about ‘all the forelock tugging’ are really stating their distaste of what they see as the uncultured lower classes. When the moaners travel abroad and observe cultures they can appreciate them without the fear of being absorbed into them because their travel reinforces their superiority to their own lower classes back home.

Go to Northern Ireland in July - see what you think?

I think you're absolutely right.

I've always been baffled at this.

My husband is from Afghanistan and afghans are so proud of their "graveyard of empires" forgetting that ghengis khan was probably one of the most ruthless killers and the fact the country has multiple different ethnicities because of them all being conquered against their will.

The Dutch are allowed to be proud to be Dutch even though they basically was the first "white" nation to start slavery of the Africans.

Germans are allowed to be proud (no comment there we all know)

Indians are allowed to be proud even though they still treat majority of their own casts like shit if they deem them lower than their own cast.

If any other country could have conquered 75 percent of the world they would have!

If Africa had our jewels I'm pretty sure there would not be a massive deal to return them if anything it would be "we won get over it"

I'm sick of Britain being torn apart when it was just the done thing back in the days.

Well of course. It's the novelty of the traditions of other cultures, isn't it? It's perfectly normal and understandable to feel at least a bit 'meh' about them. And it's good to question whether we shpild keep on doing a particular thing just because it's always been done.

I seriously doubt this is a feeling exclusive to the UK. Presumably in other countries lots of people regard upholding certain old traditions as stuffy and old-fashioned too, and in some cases embarrassing (due to them now being viewed as potentially non-pc, tone deaf, classist etc). There are and always have been people keen to cling onto the past and those keen to move on.

@blushcheese

Great post.

@RightDressingDown, I live in NI in one of those areas where flying of flags, parades and so on are part of the culture (and some other folk here on MN know me in RL). I've lived in West Coast US, and there was a significant amount and pride in US flags, more so in rural areas than urban though. While I lived in England I did see a good number of flags too, especially for football games, and I must say I really liked it too!

In general, I'd not associate with English flag waving or US flag waving with what happens in the area where I live. Some is indeed well intentioned, but much of it here sadly is provocative, mean spirited, more akin to KKK messaging in the the deep south of the US. Of course that happens on both sides of the sectarian divide, but I can only comment for where I live (there are no Catholics).

There is lot of culture in NI, but like everywhere with pros/cons. Same for England. Be proud of the the good parts! (be aware of the not so good).

YANBU, but it isn't everyone.

It's basically people who see themselves as more international and liberal. And not confined to England either, you see it to some extent among the same group in the US, Canada, etc.

It's always seemed odd to me that people like this will be very blase about their own cultural patrimony but will regularly travel abroad to enjoy that of other people, and seem to see doing so as a sign of sophistication. But I wonder if maybe it's because they can stay in the observer role to a large extent - it doesn't demand anything of them.

What's more annoying is they can also be very nasty about other people in their own culture who do take these things seriously.

I think an example of this might be when I was at uni there were emails sent out to wish those celebrating a happy Eid (fine) but the fundraiser Christmas jumper days name had to be changed to 'festive jumper' Day so as not to cause offence and I think the Easter and Christmas holidays were renamed for the same reason too. Grated against me that.

I live in an Irish speaking part of the West Coast of Ireland, not a lot of traditions survived ( not talking about religion ) and a lot of our language died out so I suppose our pride in our heritage and traditions comes from trying to preserve them against the odds. Theres been a huge surge in young people using and appreciating the Irish language both native and abroad.

As an observer of English culture, having lived there and seen so much of it on TV its such a mix of cultures. One can't expect to colonise so many different countries and expect their culture not to seep into lifestyle. I mean how many of you are going to buy Halloween costumes and carve pumpkins in a few weeks?

Dug hard to find something to be annoyed about with this one didn't we?!

Sneering at Britain with outright pompous vitriol is epitomised by James o’Brien on LBC. Actually unbearable to listen to more than half the time.

I appreciate his linguistics but not the ultra-staunch dripping-with-condescension personality that is there 95% of the time, and his frothing and barbed insults are usually aimed squarely at U.K./England. I’ve never heard anything like it, but hear him echoed in others more recently.

(Also he’s unable to construct valid arguments half the time relying on false suppositions and hoping no one will notice, then he denigrates and bullies dissenting callers who disagree and point these holes out, so that also contributes to unlistenableness; his intellectual totalitarianism which isn’t based on superior thinking or logic).

But leaving him totally to one side, yes I agree with you op!

I don’t see much of this happening any more.